Conlangery #01: Why Conlang?

Conlangery #01: Why Conlang?

Published: Tue, 31 May 2011 08:20:42 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 mm <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> hello walker hon luxury part but just all about structured like arm your hoesch george carlin and cheer from maryland lovely among them hello um way down south in santiago that you <unk> we have to wash phone call or the <unk> the big movies there's lots of things uh managed them yeah i think we all actually speak spanish but uh you though [laughter] no i <unk> uh the player so [laughter] [laughter] right yes you put a little better than my friends anyway [laughter] i know spanish they'll try it splits not in the mood maybe when i finish my drinks [laughter] um [laughter] that's not the first i've heard that phrase later first if i had any kind of drops for bumped first i would play something here because we're starting the first segment <unk> <unk> where are we talking about a topic that has something to do with <unk> uh sort of a a general topic ah today we're going to say talk about why do people there's many reasons people state for creating their language some people want it like a secret language to write their journal in some people have spiritual reasons for it some people's wants to apply it to a fictional work like a novel so what draws people to <unk> <unk> and what are the characteristics that make people more or less interested in this very impractical hobby [laughter] what are you guys [laughter] well yeah it is completely very frustrating the legwork steaks thousands of mine i worked in you'll end up with something which you probably don't speaking the first thing [laughter] so it is incredibly incredibly um practically your city but i think most people do it for the fun of it you know it's like uh waiting and know that doesn't <unk> you know it is interesting uh they couldn't do that i kept saying the word but <unk> that's in in you know there's no there's no oh wait i finished yeah didn't really get isn't so <unk> it's like <unk> <unk> i don't feel any great well i do it for some reason obviously but it's not to get to an end point to say yes i have finished <unk> yeah i think both of you are right on that most people that i see on the forums talking about they're calling legs and stuff they really just <unk> <unk> and that's where i used to be more recently i just haven't been <unk> as much and it's more been as i've been writing my novel but when i needed something in a con line constructed it but that's still sort of me doing it for the sake of doing it because writing the novel you know i'm not super likely to get a smash it get a million bucks out of the novel anyway [laughter] even then if i did happen to get a hit after publishing novel which will be years in the future maybe one percent of the people who read it would really appreciate the work that went into language yeah i kind of also like when i started my first one my first language <unk> came from an idea of the story i had and i don't really write them down 'cause amazing thing i did was on the language so loyal now and <unk> kind of got like a <unk> hand in hand with a lot of people you know they asked us <unk> after languages for each other people and i think when you have like some other project that it goes into you tend to stick with it <unk> rather than people make like ten different once a week and then find something now <unk> there's <unk> in that you are right in uh i know of of writing you're using their schooling so five and six placing africa forward but i think <unk> <unk> <unk> oh i pulled her hobbies you know i mean <unk> um <unk> people don't make ah like i'm calling me both on what our bases ah as i i went to the full getting you know i want to be [laughter] uh i normally would you do you need eaten word and really the people tend to get the stuck in the world and studying the language and second the history and not right in ninety nine <unk> yeah that's really true 'cause it's a lot and he said it takes hours yeah actually actually said to my boss is exactly something that happened to me because my first call on laying yell <unk> was part of this world that are created it was a <unk> world with dimensional traveling all sorts of fan i wanted to write stories and and i actually did do a fictional flaw in it for a while the fact is i got so involved in writing the whole world the way it was my girl just little box and i was afraid writing a story would mm mess it up [laughter] that'd be realistically as hot big <unk> story it's supposed to mess of the world up so sure i would react uh word missing the yeah the thing is i think the court you know weight easier than writing because if we need to uh beat the counts you know you you i don't know i usually find the uh <unk> <unk> <unk> one class of birds <unk> i did something today and i i <unk> my two my work and it's okay but i don't think you hit it right just look on calling to what the character do now [laughter] i don't agree on that like i've come to plant some like i need to do something <unk> i don't like anything i think up some just like fine i have to do something else and then maybe a week later i mean they'll come to me that i like it's not always like a direct thing like i need they sell it come up with something <unk> sometimes it doesn't that doesn't happen to me because i'm too lazy [laughter] okay you know what i make a part time for a class of now is it that <unk> that one [laughter] yeah i've gotten a few things where i just like not been able to do anything with my complex for a while like i started writing grammer for yo talk and then i got i got pretty far through at least grammatical stuff but i haven't worked on that forever i've never really caught a fighter grammer for i'd rio besides just bunch of <unk> of the connections and verb forms and stuff right chart are these stuff oh fairly common that i know that for that i have no books and notebooks full check [laughter] really i think like half of well not half of my grandma now but like when i first started making my grandma trying out he was all like table painful painful cable and then the <unk> feed their <unk> [laughter] [laughter] yeah it's like well that's a subject sorry it's what the story i mean do you guys kills time um i i only started recently like a year and a half ago now and that was when i graduated from school i always had ideas and i was in school but i didn't have the time now at the time i saw a waste of getting some <unk> equalizer lady i think you're stuffing forum for when you're a <unk> that's more than i have thank you [laughter] have a lack of time for me like at the start i was just doing it because i had that interested in languages and it was in a way to play with different things about language and nowadays it's not as big for me but i still am interested con laying 'em interested in other people's called <unk> it's a weird if you consider it they're not it's it's weird like that because there are more creators of clinton that <unk> <unk> <unk> you know yeah it's i basically for yourself and you're not really in an audience and then a couple of people i mean and i'm guilty of this like i make my <unk> i hardly ever read anyone else [laughter] yeah me too [laughter] oh yeah that's true i classic rarely any arts there's a bunch of people that don't get recognized but <unk> it's probably magnified just by the fact that it it's so difficult to try to say promote a con like if people get enthusiastic about someone else's <unk> it's usually one of the big ones like playing on or <unk> and <unk> yeah yeah and find out hang out with you i meant by the way they usually latch onto one of them people appreciate a wide variety of kahn likes to this sort of hard to learn enough about a con leg to appreciate it and it's not like a natural language where you could actually learn it and speak it with a lot of other people only a very few con legs can do that i think you know that's been out so being the the big one even playing on it doesn't have very many fluids speakers now and that one on one <unk> anyone focus <unk> either [laughter] do you think they think he's the big ones as you said it it <unk> or a <unk> i'm not going next thing the way that ah most <unk> says that they are actually natural language is they became real language just natural language i mean they are constructed but they have a leading community which speaks it i think that could be set of their spin on it though i don't know about others 'cause i spent a lot though does have native speakers really yeah there's actually a word and mispronounce of for it i don't remember [laughter] that's some weird parents do that right there [laughter] [laughter] oh there's people who have tried to teach playing on as a native language i don't know how many successes there have been on that so yeah no that's <unk> [laughter] <unk> there might make it easy to learn other ones 'cause clinging clinging on is just so freaking hard yeah even if you lived in england you're that you're going there and during the winter [laughter] except for the tone [laughter] i cannot tell him to save my life [noise] [laughter] i can hear like one or two but the difference between <unk> in the right thing and i see i can hear like high end rising like the ones that are <unk> but not like high end made i'd be like whatever actually speaking of mandarin that actually brings us to the next segment which is our future of the week which is measure words more formally notice numerals plus the fires these are words are more freedoms that are use with a numerals indicate account of mountains and you usually will have uh some ethic relationships in to the mountain that they're used to count their most common in eastern asian languages such as chinese korean japanese burmese and they also exist in english so if you know expressions like a head of cattle head is like the measure word except they're more dramatic life these languages i know with uh chinese specifically i've had to learn probably a hundred or more measure words that go with various things and they all they all have very loose magic relationships like shows is something long and soon like a dragon or river a fish but it's still a little bit arbitrary philosophy you know anything any thing about any languages with measure words in them i think it'd language has uh some measure clients and this is the ah measure words i mean we have in english we have a <unk> uh <unk> uh a few or whatever but uh they are not really know that uh <unk> uh in my life i mean i can't imagine having different advice for a loan things in distance lunches for show things but that is that is one of the interesting things about calling you know you uh read i mean for me it was a really big part of what it is interesting <unk> well it wasn't interesting or languages when i started doing this call little thing really really how different uh different languages work that's really want to have a nice place that you know <unk> and coming in as a hobby is that i mean no one's going to look at your way but you don't a lot of insight into [noise] and she can see things i would never think cross i think by like maybe shave sway now movement and sit and laugh at other languages yeah yeah i think if you wanted to include these things into a language it would be very interesting basically an english they're only used for non count announce for mass now yeah like like cattle you can't <unk> catalyst for just a collective thing yeah i'm a member of vaguely and that could be making it up there was a language like why did they specify what am i spending african country get home there's like now <unk> whatever they're called and they fly them like friday shave so you'd have like six feet long things seven eight round thing but i think <unk> more known classes or gender well no it is and i think it's interesting that the same ideas class fine thanks bye they shape inside presented in another part of the language whereas other places they see the same <unk> take 'em out of class had some laughs yeah that is an interesting thing and learning about different languages i think can help us like learning these about these features can help us with the <unk> you can learn to help us learn about how language works she how partly you can tell tell us how it really is very arbitrary you can attach semantic meeting too a lot of different places mhm states which has uh you know female more and and um <unk> and stuff like what'd you completely arbitrary yeah one thing that uh up here in my mind when you were saying that uh you know how <unk> <unk> at work or whatever i think that is something we tend to let you know and you incorporate a cool future you're like oh cool i don't know <unk> that's something interesting i'm going to incorporate it works but people tend to not think much about how the how this all this uh different film at us and uh <unk> <unk> <unk> you know how how one thing interacts with another and it gives you a coherent system yeah and they also i think sometimes the <unk> people forget the arbitrariness and the <unk> irregularity with with measure words i know that you know in chinese i said you have to think for long since things and there are certain animals that take that there's other animals that take another thing that i don't even know what it's supposed to be and so to create a realistic language i think that that's sort of thing will illustrates that i real language will have things that don't make a whole lot of sense that happens like every once in a while you have like an idea <unk> san by shameful and you get to the point where you get something maker quite fit into any of the boxes and at some point you just have to decide and choose which one is going going 'cause it's never going to any and that happens in real life of course so people just choose one and then it sticks yeah or because of historical weird yeah something sticks which is something something different earlier or whatever yeah you get that history in ah natural language is that you just don't getting kind of lame [laughter] die of comics and you have like millions of dollars just on making a nice sense language and then <unk> yeah [laughter] that's the really good language is is they pay attention to the history and actually extrapolate some weird stuff out yeah oh i think even <unk> you know even with people who make this a very um no no it it's worked for the last <unk> ah ah preference for regularity well it'd be easier on them [laughter] sure this year but also i think it appeals to a sense of my languages lodico what'd you say <unk> you know strong in uh <unk> and people who will be the next day but outdoor or something but i don't know i think most uh <unk> too much the regular <unk> or something kind of agree with that i think i felt pray to that with my first language but i'm trying to make my next one you know complicated i tried to do a little bit of shaking up but there's always very superficial irregularity i introduced like i say what i do i have massive charts and they're all very very regular i do have your regular forms but they're not they're not very expense regularity furry or you know you get out of the state <unk> well i think we can move on to our future coddling unless somebody has more stuff to say here ah think second okay this is something that bianca alerted to be too it's fair um i'm not sure how to pronounce his name is uh this language of a fictional race of shape shift teachers from fictional world of doberman cheer created by david edwards and it has interesting features that i picked up on i saw he has this what he calls his stance system which appears to be basically uh politeness system but it has some differences like basically by the way you speak in this language it looks like i look a cursory look at the grammar and it seems like it's mark on now and if marks whether you're a leader a follower and different social situations dictate when you use whichever one and there's some other form bianca huh mm japanese does something very similar so right yeah <unk> yeah japanese and korean both do that i would suggest that it was inspired by a japanese somewhat well i was asking them about it and i think it's more inspired by that um that you would call it war thing like when <unk> several i don't want to be wrong about that for whatever <unk> much like you can get with animals when they take that defined body language type things that are selected in their language and like you know yeah the al <unk> or whatever and the rest and then you know take the stand and knowledge that he's in the position of authority that is evil as well that is true but it's not as i did not to say all of this i think most people yeah that and the shapes shifting thing interest me because he mentions that there are things he built into the language based on their physiology he says there's oh bigger focus on describing smells and he also said that fair or die from it it is whereas humans have three basic colors in their eyes ah these creatures only have two basic colors the only thing is when i was looking closer into stuff he said it was like red and yellow are the same word and they can't differentiate between yellow and i'm like this is not set your uh i think there are a lot of human languages that don't differentiate between read it yellow although humans do can actually see the difference well <unk> take the idea that result might be the same the same situation that does make sense but i do like um when people make quote unquote alien languages and they talk about something some creature that has different physiology and they built that into the language i did that with <unk> <unk> what do you think about that kind of thing or you have to disagree with you i i tend to find that uh when people do try to impose a quote unquote avian correct i speak their language they tend to come up with it's l. e. s. alien to me uh the rubber foreheads the news and stuff you know oh how weird no differentiate in between right and you know well come on there's a bunch of things to do that i'm looking at walls right know the world that left the language structure so late which is great for research for for these kinds of things and uh i look what you don't actually have that uh uh decision no grand versus blue as the primary uh green and blue oh not different in sixty eight out of the hundred and fifty which is what the <unk> so we had like <unk> <unk> yeah that's that's like <unk> the thing you know oh i know my <unk> my values to have a fourth quarter well okay but i think that for for backwards to be <unk> and this is debbie <unk> me perhaps if if people don't even have to be something very <unk> difficult to these <unk> yeah it's kind of like how do you <unk> you don't really know anything that alien that is true it's it's really difficult to actually make something that's totally weird like france or something say if you have a creatures that has no lifts you can assume that they have <unk> that sort of thing it it doesn't necessarily make for anything really bush really alien to most people necessarily or to to everyone but it can be a point of interest that something in the physiology has affected this particular alien species and how they speak but ah i agree with you too much that it usually doesn't end up being as aliens as you think it's going to be like oh go ahead we do like about the fair and uh when i was checking the grammar earlier is that in that these resonate for me with uh the cold war thing that the author which i don't know i was in the <unk> what's his name in the fourth of whatever he does have an emphasis in his uh creating this ah folks see people in uh <unk> uh if they heighten their emotions like their redo your most other people they will for instance <unk> if you see how you'll be you'll know so they appear to be really really uh culturally emotional culturally if you could stapled and for instance that money for it in the mood which there are a lot and that kind of thing really rings a bell for me more than rubber hippie thing so i was i was saying i mean i mean i think the coach or for people is far more effective or can be more effective you nicholas <unk> physiology right completely i think that's one of the things that i like about the thing is that a solid world that god behind it and it's not just saying copying pay someone else i mean you can't be like oh this is kind of like japan because then it's not kind of like anything i know [noise] it can get and it's just like in the language so they're both connected in a way that i like you have the world's building is really good like i should mention fair and is it next turtle's name for the language it's actually internally like law and my <unk> and his whole grammar is actually written in character from somebody who came and visited the the failure i think is what they're called i'm definitely miss pronouncing it fun [laughter] so he has not only do these people figure it out but he has another culture figured out enough that he can say he can take a character from another culture and had him observe this cold [laughter] i'd look at that's cool yeah i mean even like the simple translation <unk> that's a good amount of like culture behind then okay i mean you hate to a point like i see people translating sentences and then my <unk> when you get a real language you get to the point where like you can't actually saying this concept just isn't that you have to stay healthy now right pragmatic which is the handles underdeveloped barbara fairly cool because it's the hardest difficulty i think probably one of the last things you learn if you're learning linguistics issue i don't think i ever went to class i mean i could ever going to talk about traumatic it doesn't happen at some point i think sometimes in place i'd like to give if they don't translate everything at some point you have to say no you can't say that i mean it sounds kind of like a cup i like oh i'm not going to worry about it you can't say but at some point you have to <unk> get language can't yeah not to say that there's anything that's fundamentally on print liable but there's just because i any language can express everything but because of the structure of a particular language because of the some ethic fields that it's words in body it may be very awkward to translate something is directly and it may need a little more work to it yeah i mean like culturally i mean even like get thing <unk> tend to get that thing that makes sense like why would you say that that's something to <unk> you know i think [noise] talk to us as well in the the real world you know this the discipline the linguistics <unk> like <unk> if something doesn't feel right language buddies that <unk> same sex with a grandmother i think that's right and he had the correct lexical well the problem is probably pragmatic so don't worry about it [laughter] that's always like the last thing you land and you're like learning a second language and so he finally say what you say and i think that's actually the part that you can only get for practice i think the new the uh print version of the l. c. k. has a section on pragmatic so i haven't had a chance to look at it though i don't know i haven't even looked at it at all it's really i thought of [noise] thing is <unk> is that uh the level which creation <unk> for the <unk> the guy has a real fascination with pragmatic you know and he's the first one was like you know it's not enough to make a grammar intellect single and and uh just through all these things together you have to make it work in a way that makes culture that's terrible i mean i've gotten to that point my language i think i want to do that but i don't have like a culture <unk> celebrate i'll stop doing well let's say <unk> or something and then i went from a culture and then when i go back okay yes and now it's kind of context cancer the context and probably just like greenbacks english and they'll be like yeah i think that any of the day [laughter] yeah actually that makes sense with what you were saying before with every little bit helps i think maybe <unk> but you know with a con like there's so many different facets of what you could work on with it [laughter] if you get bored with one element of the language you can move on to something else that's true <unk> and that's why you have candles literally candles paper unconnected know completely <unk> for for those of us who ah do it on the computer we have you know you could buy <unk> they may not yeah bikes but i don't know a lot of of of sick [laughter] and your lifestyle and stuff work about it it would be yeah unless you're doing a lot of audio files my well my take on now i don't really thinking my language is well my very first language uh for one thing there's things that humans can't pronounce properly but for another thing it's just freaking hard to print out so i don't try it [laughter] i had that problem with what other legs i made when i was younger and then i decided you know what what uh what was <unk> it i wanna make you ask for none of the whole as i can because they want to be able to put out they wouldn't be able to speak it and i think it up like a sixteen foot <unk> and uh reading reading things <unk> out of lazy boring [laughter] it's really boring fanatic yes i don't know <unk> we get that since the interest yeah i'm not really into that place like that or i have this close to that says that i did what again [laughter] i think a lot of uh beginning con lakers really like messing around with the phonology because that's the most successful thing that's the thing that everybody else will notice and then you get a little bit more into shriver later on [noise] yeah i mean that's the other thing going back to school you cannot sing fort lifetime learning and stuff <unk> sure <unk> takes much longer than if you look at painting and you cannot get paying five seconds to say yes like now i understand i kind of long enough to like put a decent judgement on it i take allies and pay me enough just like yeah like where we were we were talking about uh say hon lying that we were featuring here and it's kind of like we're talking around stuff because i i'm sure none of us really had time to really read the whole grammar at once no lazy so we were just kinda skimming over it and uh [noise] we got the interesting stuff but but i don't think we fully appreciate what you know failure and does is and all the work but the guy put into it all that kind of stuff but it's good to call attention to it and i mean if she like <unk> when you're more likely to continue eating and going into other things you know yeah like i like one thing <unk> say dish and then i still so my main so for for um what did you steal from sweeter indefinite definite things for the index <unk> fascinating patches and oh that's interesting [noise] well and then i changed <unk> added like case [laughter] yeah that's the most <unk> most of the spoils icy to uh you know someone feeding one of the aspect of their language like on the board so talking with people you know what that was that's something that would be so that way and they think oh cool yeah i i don't know the cook this i don't know what's happening i don't know how that interact with the rest of the thing is that i don't know who works really so cool [laughter] so you want to know how it works it's fast <unk> <unk> and it's a pain [laughter] okay [laughter] so i hate i hate in case and i was learning german but now that i don't have to <unk> yeah [laughter] see i like cases but that may be because i've never learn a language that required case so actually you're living which requires case in uh <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah it does have case only on pronouns i only in like <unk> <unk> yeah it's just uh it's yeah it is <unk> just like our ah very weak and often forgotten subjective which is probably on the way out on the <unk> [laughter] and i started learning channel and yeah [laughter] do now or dramatic introduced from <unk> nah and old english that have been just sort of atrophied i did my <unk> <unk> what'd you say when people say if you were <unk> as i say that oh right right yeah yeah that junk like another use of the uh more put up with the <unk> yeah i mean english <unk> [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] we have a very very good it's funny i have a <unk> also when it's well lately [laughter] yeah i always get road unfair and that's nice i always get a <unk> not using it sound like the whole <unk> thing is the subject is funny she's pregnant sort of <unk> each thing like you know form of a situation of not using it makes you so i don't know karate you don't really want to have that [laughter] but but the real language you know like uh like uh me talking with like her that she doesn't have a subject to use the condition and i notice people are too that's that's so it's really i think that there must be something in in western culture maybe that's kind of for the rope [laughter] i wouldn't i wouldn't necessarily say that well everyone just got lazy and said why do we need that went down [laughter] very ill divine mood and the first place it's kind of a catchall thing but uh no it sucks [laughter] [laughter] well for me it's really it's really simple you using subjective <unk> rid of the government which are not necessarily real when you are speaking of <unk> and not some things that he's a west and we'll be okay yeah that sounds so simple okay okay so it is like that but i just want to say that um i don't know if we can draw any conclusions from the fact that both english and spanish are losing english is practically lost it because there's only one for ever shows that most people like or it and i wonder if that's a general thing in spanish or it's just something that's happening and cheesy no general thing yeah yeah i heard from people from a civil order but um uh when you're from spain and uh argentina and they all come at the same thing it's subjective he's slowly uh forty oh till he was actually in the lower income city so you can draw conclusions from that but i think it's <unk> yeah maybe some time we should use some junk food is our is our future [laughter] talk more about it but anyway i think we done a pretty good episode and i think we can we can roll this thing yeah <unk> that's that's rabbits yeah i'll start ladies first bianco work and do you have anything on the internet even your con like site or anything that you would like to promote um well i don't ever want to say but if you ever see my profile or just awesome [noise] usually at the <unk> at the bottom i have a link to my language and you should read it because it's awesome and that's your profile on on the t._v. or the m._t._v. beef and pork oh do you have anything for even any recommendations you'd like to give to be a lot of my old stuff i don't think i have anything er decently purse or should i mean i have a lot of paper and i am too lazy [laughter] [noise] oh the next day and uh <unk> constantly sure sure yeah i'm working on a news station so it'll be awesome and i <unk> i knew what i'm doing a new information that's my grandma oh toby yeah oh you're going to be of of ice and your stuff [noise] i watch law for post it said that your grammar was not a real grammar unless it was a hundred pages and we'll making us then so [laughter] i've never been really nice little [laughter] maybe there's novel that i'm writing a will get better but anyway <unk> about to recommend something or what i know it wasn't they was uh explaining why not [laughter] you're not get a pet you can pick up somebody else's stuff if you've got nothing so [laughter] nope okay comes by right now all right well i don't have anything specifically <unk> related on the internet so all i can do is direct people to my own personal site which is ga quarterly dot com this audience might be interested in i i try every week to write an essay in spanish in an essay chinese i failed this week but i'll try next week and i have a twitter account ga quarterly cool actually pakistan having bad [noise] are you in the mood right hell no official drink [laughter] no i did which uh um but unfortunately it today like caring and that's a rep for us thank you for listening to <unk> if you like what you heard you can subscribe to a <unk> i <unk> or through our own or assist feet or blog ensure nuts are at <unk> dot org you can also like us on peace book just search for <unk> or you could follow is <unk> <unk> <unk> see oh in l. a. n. g. e. r. y. if you would like to suggested topic <unk> future yell at us for being stupid or express your love for the part goes you can contact <unk> uh she emailed dot com and yes it is perfectly okay you're calling for a con leg of the week [noise] the music was food and er with the [noise] [noise] mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm

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  1. Conlangery Podcast
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  3. conlang
  4. Feayran
  5. language
  6. linguistics
  7. measure word

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 01 Why Conlang? (last edited 2017-09-07 10:19:25 by PeteBleackley)