Conlangery #02: Promoting Your Conlang

Conlangery #02: Promoting Your Conlang

Published: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 02:15:56 +0000 \

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utterance-id1 mm <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> because of languages and the people are georgia poorly yours by lovely cohost <unk> hello ah we have today from learned about dot org william add uh hello i'm actually like uh a little bush today because uh this weekend i participated at another very very <unk> hobby i went to a large [laughter] but uh yeah story there's not much interest in it for con lying or con world perspective because frankly the setting they use is sort of general fantasy much right [laughter] so oh no monks running around speaking latin or anything like that [noise] um no but they do have uh uh uh a habit of representing in game languages what's real languages but what's that topic for another time oh i i also what to <unk> uh the mouse will not be joining us today and for the time being he's not going to be a regular house because i won't go into details but basically his life just recently exploded basically so real life comes before stupid pot cast so yeah well we'll be missing him he might come on occasionally are we ready for our main topic here [laughter] so you've created a <unk> right now you want people to see it hopefully appreciate it somewhat how do you do that are you gonna just slap your grammar up on line maybe make up some lessons or <unk> right fiction and put the language into that as flavor or you know maybe you're an <unk> and you have your whole manifesto behind your language <unk> how do you get other people to see your <unk> how do you get it out there how you get people to pay attention to what do you guys like on this subject hey <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> pretty much trying 'cause i anyone possible but <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> right and then that way someone will have entered [laughter] interesting approach to it well <unk> [laughter] what do you do you mean that on <unk> focussed fora or just you can well not as well i think i'd ever like bought him like cake and eat like algebra but how about pending yeah well let's let's talk about that because the fact is we talked about this on last part because there are a few very famous hotlines that have entered sort of the general consciousness you have <unk> you have playing on you have now <unk> those <unk> <unk> oh man i wonder <unk> in our heart <unk> and <unk> and then make <unk> well yeah i'm like oh i really liked it i mean that's how everyone i know that's true especially for art legs you can't really push it on its huh no i mean my finger on line <unk> fame yeah i think probably one major thing you you want to think about what audience we want to reach but the general public is probably never going to have any more than a basic general idea of i know this exists anyway if you want it in the general public do you have to have something else and even <unk> have this big movement behind that their philosophy behind that pans on your wife [laughter] i don't know what i'm saying [laughter] really <unk> well unfortunately for <unk> the normal operating procedure appears to be right some inflammatory posts on another dog like sports talking about how yours is such an incredible magnificent improvement over all previous attempt [laughter] and that was certainly get you attention the only <unk> let's cut significant numbers i can think of recently that's that's contemporary his uh <unk> and that when you're more or less polite that that wasn't quite as aggressive as some people can be and <unk> and honestly i don't know how he did that i think that just happened because the languages pretty appealing <unk> sounds good one thing i have noticed it and i'm sure like pulling this from the book uh land of invented languages y erica oprah and one thing she points out is both in <unk> and and a couple of famous art <unk> is there has to be a community around it and she talks about how <unk> <unk> it's <unk> actually made his language sort of public domain he didn't want to control it or anything well he was although concerned about the fact that since he was a jew in the late eighteen early nineteen hundreds that there might be prejudiced against the language if he kept control of it as well uh that that could be true there weren't <unk> language and everything and <unk> which i can i can show in <unk> at my <unk> well not how language [laughter] yeah the guy should try to [laughter] yeah [laughter] i'm not i'm not advocating that attitude at all i i'm not fond of most arc arc lying philosophy sort of thing and less less than an hour i felt like hurt off one of my friends about it so [laughter] yeah well it's it happens well that makes me the odd man out since i've actually been to one uh north american aspirin to a conference oh really yeah well what's your thoughts on that well well i'm an expert onto heretic i'm a <unk> she's not heard about the <unk> controversy [noise] that's probably uh a topic for i don't know if you guys want to talk about it but it it's focussed on s. brown too as representing a community of like minded people rather than promoting as putting up to us a common second language so it's it's a different focus on the on the news the best friend who was a sort of people who speak it rather than focused on promoting it but then we have language is like <unk> do we suppose she promoted that uh and there's still plenty of people trying to learn it using it i have seen some things on <unk> on a i think she did deliberately put that out there they deliberately promoted a bit i'm thinking so that her philosophy is also fairly <unk> she doesn't really want to make it and i <unk> she wants to make it she has her philosophy <unk> she represented in the language great yeah i i think that's sort of the the point i was making and <unk> you know 'cause she said you need more than just the language you need some reason for community to form around that language learning the language even as simplified i. l. is hard it's a lot of work [noise] so do you want to other <unk> it is a lot of time there's a lot of work yeah so it seems like there needs to be something else binding that group together and that actually holds true for the very big art things that are out there because they're attached to a very very popular entertainment franchises right like you know a lot of fans with the world view yes and you talk about playing on speakers they're all big star trek fan you talk about people who are studying elvin languages their big hole in fans it's how fat community is growing about that fictional work the same way as split on so grew up around it's philosophy and what like large fan grew up around also another philosophy about language although it's impossible to speak [laughter] i mean i i'm in the unusual position of having one of my language is be learned my other people not very many three or four [noise] and i haven't thought used clue why they did [laughter] [laughter] oh a friend of mine started learning it and then i said well this is this is annoying i don't want to use my work email let's just make a mailing list and we can keep track of her discussions 'cause he was always asking you for new words and then a few other people's point so i had people for a while trying learned my language and no clue not a single clue how that one got picked i ain't got no is l._a. separate myself from the <unk> in the right hold dear okay language right now i'm in l._a. yeah i'm just saying why writing those lessons can be such a great improvement um helping you notice places you've missed things right [laughter] <unk> <unk> whenever i <unk> i <unk> i like it [laughter] <unk> how do they tell then [laughter] and i mean i think and i wanna make clear promoting <unk> especially to a general audience is not for everybody i don't even have any of my online outlined gone to a website i have my internal materials that i intend to be using for sure right fiction i using my eye rio materials to read fiction if i ever finished my novel i'll put it in a <unk> about the language but other than that i'm not really that interested in having making other people learn or trying to get other people to learn if it happens it happens it'd be cool but if i see but that makes me sad because last on your on your <unk> several of you said you don't read other people's phone line [laughter] i love reading other people's con legs find a cheap web hosting service [noise] put it on the <unk> which is free for people i mean <unk> <unk> <unk> but it kinda shop are single for that just make it available somehow <unk> i had i <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> in that whole marriage <unk> and and share [laughter] sure [laughter] well ah <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> pretty <unk> [laughter] <unk> [laughter] god [laughter] yeah well that involves knowledge and writing about it and i want to clarify i love looking yet sketches and i i like looking at other people's languages at least enough to get ideas about what the what they have but i don't have time to sit down and read grammar all the time i don't well i i don't have the desire to read <unk> all the time if i'm really interested i would read more and look into these things more if i wasn't more interested in other things or something but the fact is yeah there's there's people like you william that will like to actually <unk> down into the grammar and i think that's actually very good i wish i did more of that because you know you can get ideas from that oh absolutely oh well i want to mention the same for money i mean it can be people reading that may have in common like promoting x. rayed it hey it here in <unk> in that i like about it and there and back [laughter] like i have like a culture has <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> uh <unk> one <unk> [laughter] that's <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> you know like hey i [noise] when she <unk> she match <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah i don't say that when you're promoting to the <unk> unity which is the other side of our discussion here when you're writing your grammar when you're riding up your materials the first thing that people will want to see is what goes behind your language it fits and <unk> you want to say what your philosophy for this <unk> is what you want why you think it's a good language if it's a full softer languages you know outline a little bit y y you arrange things how you are and if it's an art like definitely definitely good grammar <unk> start with a cultural background you start with whatever culture speaks this language talk about they're a little bit about their history about their culture about you know who these people are i mean they had like cultural background nah [laughter] yes <unk> <unk> <unk> [laughter] i mean <unk> i can't change it now [laughter] i mean <unk> i don't know i think there are some personal languages which have such even though they don't necessarily have a culture behind them have such a distinctive creative tone that can make them appealing <unk> add that i'm not saying that <unk> has <unk> highlight hi <unk> <unk> <unk> you know hook and it'd be a hawk or a philosophy behind the language and <unk> the story of why you created language or what <unk> started you creating languages can be a hub for pay seventy three confident inventory could be a hook and it'd be an anti arabs [laughter] for some people that's cool yeah and there was somebody would really love that although i'm getting laughing [laughter] [laughter] i mean [laughter] although isn't or <unk> eighty three consulates or something oh all over south africa those languages have lots and lots of confidence in addition to the cliques yes yes i just bring that up because i know last <unk> last time we were talking about how weird it's weird because you find all kinds of things in human language is [laughter] that people will think are completely weird from coming from our perspective sometimes <unk> it's <unk> it's the curse of the common language to invent something weird it only discovered that three languages australia already do it when you get like a <unk> <unk> <unk> what if there was like and now that we're married terrorist things <unk> it's called the devil and right now is thinking that i thought you know yeah [laughter] that's why i just stick to if i have an idea i try to look it up on what you do do anyway i don't really care about trying to create something original that's the same like with my <unk> the whole package <unk> i mean you really think you're gonna think of him and marry him if people think you know <unk> <unk> no the the whole package and the execution of it should be the unique thing the creative thing when you're writing a story you're using stock <unk> and things from real experience holed into it you never ever come with a completely new idea and honestly sometimes trying to come up with a completely new idea is not interesting because it'll be so alien to people that they just don't process well you don't want to be or not it's not like right now the way things buying <unk> make yeah couldn't seem a little strange sometime we shared aiming for novelty just seems exhausting and sometimes not very convincing yeah even some of the most novel <unk> like the like the philosophical language is that can't be learned basically and the things like what is it <unk> that has like [noise] that grabber those ideas come from other places philosophical languages are hundreds of years old and the stack language comes from what programming languages doesn't it though well certainly programming language is used that i'm not sure i'm not study that one enough to know the motivation i i'm not really well versed on it by i've seen it mentioned why don't we go ahead and move on to a future our future con lying and the reason we have william here is our future <unk> they were going with something a little bit more than eight mainstream not the not the not be language was created by linguist home from work or james cameron two thousand nine movie <unk> it's influences in suit me lay indonesian persian he has included several interesting features such as that they have <unk> heightened system they're doin' trial numbers again these are things that exist in other languages specifically things that <unk> from other languages i just i'm just going to turn this overkill you williams since he actually no <unk> [laughter] i was on the top of the episode i've mentioned william anna's is actually part of the website learn not via dot org which is a fan site that analyzes basically statements from <unk> from the movie and associated materials to talk to reconstruct what <unk> it'd be really is sure the website is a lot more than just focused on the language but that's why i'm there so unlike playing on which had a book published officially bless spotted the powers that be paramount we have nothing official from any one on fox from not from white storm [laughter] i'm not really from <unk> from er [noise] about the not mean language so how could anyone produce it for me the early history of not being was like being in linguistics you know three o one someone would do an interview as part of being marketing jog or not that led up to the release of the film <unk> would give us a news tend to not be and myself and if she weather um obsessive as would pull that apart and tried to figure out what was going on dramatically in terms of the <unk> we had a little help you in that one of the books published before the movie came out called the appetizer an activist survival guy had a a somewhat defective were loose but it was still enough to give us a clue to know [noise] to pull grammar apart from words like jason nixon someone and so forth so that's how it's worked most of the time and then when the movie's finally came out on d._v._d. or whatever we could listen more carefully and and and try to decipher what an american pretending to be no <unk> pretending an australian pretending to be an american like an alien language what was actually pronounce it gets not all of most of the actors did quite well but sometimes it could be a little hard yeah that's actually something <unk> shows bringing up i was very impressed actually with the level to which you could see people being fluent and the language at least on the not reside which was wire that people would be extremely fluent i have i've noticed in other things if you listen to playing on smoking in various star trek episodes and movies it's all over the map um [laughter] who's not yeah <unk> very this flu it because it's very hard and then you know talking about uh the lord of the rings movie i <unk> i always found it very jarring that air or seems to be most fluent in the elvin languages even though there are elves that in the movie [laughter] [noise] i think i read somewhere that like <unk> really like now <unk> l._a. by lightning good at it and then they go like no [laughter] [laughter] there is a problem in that especially for things like these movies these languages while exciting to people who like invented languages are set the decoration for the people making them [noise] so but not a great deal of tension may necessarily be given to moving out in protecting a natural effect for these languages certainly that was the case with them and not be <unk> i think i think the time of sigourney weaver is more valuable than you know giving her intensive lessons in how to pronounce subjective confidence [laughter] yeah <unk> <unk> <unk> [laughter] <unk> horribly wrong [noise] some of them will have dialect coaching but i don't [laughter] make some guy like <unk> <unk> it can happen [noise] yeah what language would we make them learn to give them the best work or something for the pacific northwest that would really really give them a workout [laughter] since then unlike so going back to how people can use language from or who invented language has been remarkably accessible he's alive unlike token and he can be reached by email unlike um you know the <unk> of clicking on who it stays further back and i and i don't know if that's contractual or just a temperamental so we have a lot of people especially right after the movie came out just inundating <unk> which questions about how to use the language so email answers from him things published for marketing the movie people analyzing the interviews says all come together and now he has a block or sometimes he you know gives us do information [noise] all that together is combined to give us a pretty good picture of what this link looks like [noise] and i would estimate at this point there are a few dozen people who are studying language intensely and some people can speak it quite fluently uh last october [noise] there was a meeting in california where rome or and a bunch of sort of linguistic big wigs and then i'll be community got together and worked out some details moves <unk> ask some questions and got some questions answered [noise] so he's he's really been available well beyond his contractual obligation so that's helped the language succeed as well yeah but going back to the well we talked about the last segment if just language we're not attached to a movie that blew out people's brains dams and and sort of caught onto a cultural type guys uh no one would care except a few people like me and other people who think oh in <unk> interesting [noise] yeah [laughter] <unk> right yeah oh oh the <unk> from or what i've seen of his stuff you didn't have very passionate about pushing this language as opposed to i think from what i have heard at least at the start <unk> laying on was kind of just that job and then <unk> really likes doing this stuff but he likes to talk about it in fact i have a <unk> ah the one knobby clip i i have not sorry not be <unk> i'll stop that apostrophe means something here yes yes and i like it i <unk> like means something that's good [laughter] but uh uh i have a clip of him at a talk this is that pet u._s._c. talking about uh basically romance in <unk> v. we ate <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> [noise] how did you hear the the laughing because as subtitled on his power point slide it means uh b. might come on and let's take a ride <unk> friends being the big four wing it flying out of the <unk> have yes specifically be my ride yeah <unk> <unk> <unk> yes yes okay a plot [laughter] checking yes [laughter] yeah that's his standard brief introduction he uses that as the frame to explain things like <unk> and grammar marking in number marking <unk> not be has <unk> correctly i think assumes that people will find it easier to do with it it's amusing in some way yeah he he uh he uh in that speech i i saw the he introduced the the greeting i._c._u. what's that not be again with that will not be coming ya yeah and talked about how there's infects in in <unk> and it's and how it is it's <unk> it's not just i see you but i see you with a positive attitude marker but <unk> a little less technically isn't that right i'm not that one i have no idea where that idea tamed him usually so he he taught me lay in and and this is all <unk> interviews hee hee hee hee used may lead to teach math when he was in the peace corps and does dissertation <unk> so sometimes i can see those influences not be language i have no idea where he got the idea of this this positive attitude in phoenix and the negative attitude in chicks [noise] i mean mainly has something kind of like a negative attitude thing except it's a <unk> but you know that might have been a starting point i really don't know i'm sure that there's some language out there that has it but oh no doubt i just don't just for me what's been interesting about <unk> and what kept me going [laughter] especially at the start is all sorts of people who openly complain about hating near spanish class in college or high school [noise] were suddenly passionate about learning how to pronounce attractive confidence and how to figure out very complicated um transit tiffany matters that not be required you understand before you can make almost any sentence [noise] so for me not me it was a great way to get people interested in language in general and cummings somewhat marginally but there it it provides an introduction to <unk> for some people as well yeah and it also expose this weird ideas people have a language [laughter] oh crap up all the time <unk> language yeah hey you know why would you think [laughter] and then i er i mean i just have and there's an ongoing project <unk> take requests for new vocabulary from the speaker community and he will create them or not or whatever [noise] and people submissions can sometimes be pretty interesting that that miss about the the forty birds for snow an eskimo is uncomfortable [noise] yes yes and i wouldn't be if we wanna make suggestions and not be sometimes we get some really complicated super hyper detailed vocabulary on one tiny little segments of the semantic field oh there's oh you can't like technical people [noise] [noise] yeah yeah everyone wants their own field perfectly represented oh <unk> okay our people talking scientific terms that that we wouldn't understand and things like that right that's that's an interesting camp we have just right there's only a few dozen people who use not be fluently and we already have competing camps [laughter] it's perfect it's wonderful human thing we have those who wants to language to be culturally pure no vocabulary of any sort for things that would not match the novelty cultural context from the <unk> other people who actually would like to be able to use it on earth so you need words for things like weak [noise] or or at least uh unofficially accepted <unk> location for some of these concepts so that's uh an ongoing tension i'm in my my idea though would be that a lot of human concepts would probably make it into the language because people have been there for a little bit not very long right and certainly people use that as an excuse i mean oh golly but not be aren't alien right there a fantastic conception of a particular kind of human culture in life and cameras very open about that oh i absolutely in fact you can see in his artistic depiction of this and i've had people argue with me about this white people talking about the knobby being a little some some scientific problems i myself notice you know on a planet where everything else has six slim they have poor but i actually accept that as just artistic like that's what camera and wanted to portray real is um is a priority for some people it's not always uproar for some other people and cameron was realistic in a lot of other points in the movie but everything is <unk> for his <unk> his artistic point which does not needs to involve heros with six limbs necessarily which would be a pain to end it made if nothing else [laughter] yes [laughter] <unk> so right we have these two camps er you know do we keep it keeps language pure whatever that means um <unk> and <unk> it has to worry about this there are certain <unk> pieces of vocabulary you would be useful to have and what you would expect to not be the kind of [noise] but from or won't go anywhere near because it's step solidly into cameron creative territory [noise] we have no idea for example how you would talk about your grandparents not fee and eventually we need to find at some point we hope from it will be able to talk to somebody in camera unstable of anthropologists to say what kind of family structure they had [noise] yeah so that's the weird interesting vocabulary you would think would be quite basic sometimes presents the biggest challenge that would be very important to get the relational terms associated with the culture because that's very very much affected by culture is i have sure sure absolutely learning chinese yeah we can hope that they don't have a system that complex [laughter] oh [laughter] oh yes eight words for cousin [noise] [laughter] yeah that's that's not that's <unk> that's real although it's actually not that hard learned because it's basically the sibling terms with the prefabs yeah i i recommend you take a look at all the different ah family systems and ah ways of understanding relationships that are used in australia native languages flashing bollywood movies like can i [noise] yeah there are a lot of them [laughter] there's a lot of cultures i i uh i imagine with uh very much more extensive <unk> terminology and <unk> and <unk> i mean it is i do feel it is a shame that you know people who are uh talking about <unk> we don't have any information about that because that would be very important for linking language to the culture [noise] sure sure [noise] but we're back to the issue of as much as those of us who love languages likes to see them well represented in the films for james cameron not be is a decoration no it's an important decoration i something weird happened in life in the universe when james cameron was on oprah teaching her how to say will not be comedy it correctly [laughter] in the first time oprah's headed invested language on her show i'm pretty short but we will always it's it's like people who wanted to know exactly how to the <unk> piece of trivial like that for for for the purpose is the film we're just lucky we got a competent linguist who invented language yes i have not gotten star wars style <unk> oh yeah yeah [noise] or <unk> purpose earth languages i don't know if i'm hearing things or not but supposedly it's star wars what the burritos <unk> modified when ya i've kept where <unk> <unk> sorry <unk> ah brain parts are a little <unk> obsessed modified catch <unk> i don't know that much about one yet but it's modified catch well and i swear i hear a spanish loan word for people not familiar catch what is a span a. i. language that was smoking in the former spanish empire was smoking by the ink and and <unk> by their dead it's yes and it has spanish loan words and it's monitored or i swear i hear the word <unk> he's talking to the hot dish [laughter] well <unk> <unk> and now it's awesome like when i see like um <unk> like animals and i'm now <unk> [noise] yeah <unk> yeah um [noise] <unk> [noise] i can't remember now [laughter] [laughter] <unk> <unk> yeah [laughter] oh this is normal i guess it's not animal [laughter] think of any [noise] i i'd say <unk> probably not from catch <unk> because that down and <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> i don't know i i'd have to look up something figure it out [laughter] do we want to move on to recommendations or <unk> stuff or whatever [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] oh <unk> okay but um [noise] <unk> <unk> oh i'm alan <unk> [laughter] <unk> <unk> oh [noise] oh god [laughter] i'm up yeah i can't think of anything that would be pushed the needs to be tempted you say well certainly not learn <unk> dot org right right they had what <unk> <unk> <unk> okay all right [laughter] yeah just give us gave us all oh you're you're you're <unk> you're my view on their nephew dark [noise] okay well for people who are interested in learning not being keeping up with uh developments in language there are two places to go <unk> dot org especially on the forums but there's a bunch of large p._d._f. for things like dictionaries and the grammar of what we know so far [noise] um <unk> blog knobby daddy dot org um updates maybe once or twice a month is a busy guy [noise] um is probably the other place to look alright <unk> right <unk> or something and they won't be able to be with you <unk> is deep [noise] future subjective of combat thank you for listening to <unk> you can listen to us on i too or by visiting kong winery dot <unk> you can also liked our face with age or follow at <unk> onto it or if you would like contact us with corrections comments questions or suggestion [noise] even to suggest your own counseling as [noise] please email on my email uh [noise] my [noise] then the day mm mm mm mm mm mm [noise] <unk>

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Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 02 Promoting Your Conlang (last edited 2017-09-07 10:21:33 by PeteBleackley)