Conlangery #110: Copulae

Conlangery #110: Copulae

Published: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 05:48:08 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 nope golden michael <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> and the men should be some marketing [noise] walk them learn languages [noise] people were like oh god the runways man and over in the netherlands we have reached off [noise] [noise] hi how are you guys doing [noise] good [noise] i was trying to play i know one [noise] all right [laughter] uh it was good i got to actually in person meet my wife's family oh that's nice yeah they live in um could be it's um a smaller city which in china means er probably still over a million people i never checked it small village it's it's like here's something that people in china i don't know where it is uh but like they do actually like they live in like a small little neighborhood and they actually have their own wheat fields and everything so it's there they they live pretty rural place um and i managed to since it happened to be at the same time i was there i went to a gym gene for a um resolve chronology conference [laughter] what's it like attending a linguistics confront it different from saint quit [noise] well actually so since this is an international conference most of it's an english oh okay so most of the talk show or an english there are there were some toxin chinese and i was little bummed out because like all the <unk> for all the opening speeches they had you know the little like headsets like you see if u._n. where you have an interpreter talking in your ear i'm like oh great that would be awesome but then when they get to the actual chinese talks they don't have that so it's like things that are actually important to be to try to understand i don't know [laughter] it's like we was lee was trying to help me out um buy like taking pictures of all of a slide through the chinese talks maybe i'll go back to try to save for those but um and i got a free book and uh on the downside i i screwed up my ankle which ah is not good but it's <unk> it's it's it has nothing to do with the fact that i was in trying to it just has everything to do with my left angle is <unk> is stupidly week wow a trend specific flakes with a messed up ankle must be delightful [noise] uh yeah it was not fun and i was like dumb 'cause it's like they put uh put me up in the front and there is a way like if you uh if you sort of position yourself or know slightly awkward way where you could elevated but it didn't figure that out so for about twelve hours i wasn't elevating yet and that's not good for your foot yeah [laughter] [laughter] but anyway yeah any any injuries on your vacation [noise] uh i'm not on my side uh how's he does hurt anything that's ah i was i had trouble with hay fever which was a first for me i'm <unk> which is unusual over there but uh although wise i did we didn't do enough to get her in any way [laughter] perfect vacation [laughter] i will tell you one thing if you get any kind of a foot injury and you'd have to take a flight make sure you get the the wheelchair so uh so you get the wheelchair they'll take you all the way to the plane and then you ask for one while you're on the plane to take you out all the way out of the airport oh i i i i know that <unk> ah i didn't have that but my husband to adopt a few years ago and that's stream define who gets you get <unk> everyone you get ah [noise] you don't have to wait for anything for customs for anything just goes through everything they they push you through the uh the queues and uh not only that person or the <unk> by these who's a company eating them so it's it's it's <unk> it's uh uh uh advice everyone gets hurt doing your holidays and get paid [laughter] anyway he was not a travel part gas so we don't spend a whole lot of time on that [laughter] um another personal announcement before we get to kind of like stuff my wife has a small creature growing inside her <unk> turn into a human being it lay areas way to phrase that george yes congratulations yeah but at first i thought that she had met with an alien [laughter] no okay so <unk> uh the baby is due early december uh i am highlighting this mainly because uh obviously how big a new baby will possibly affect the pot cast um i'll try not to skip any shows but you know it may affect quality and you may after december or you may hear a screaming child in the background uh won't be much i can do about that given my set up so [laughter] okay congratulations in any case [noise] yes uh and we won't be announcing the gender of the baby yet 'cause we want to be extra sure about that but uh okay anyway moving on ah before we get some topic oh the <unk> stuff uh britain's documentary has uh like a trailer thing they call it an intro like an intro um video it's ah christo sonnet yep [noise] for a horror about four seconds or something [laughter] um but they have the highlights of the whole <unk> oh the whole intro of course uncle [laughter] but it's it's um [noise] it's um it's an interesting just sort of introduction to what the the movie's gonna be about um they have not posted up their their kicks starter ah yeah but that's going to be coming soon we'll we'll highlight when that comes but we really should that video and uh you guys can check it out see what you think about it and uh also uh william and i are most likely going to be on there um we're going to be interviewed for it and um there there's some plans to record a con language specifically for that so they can put video clips of icon larry episode on into to the um final movie 'cause people sitting around staring at computer screen so very compelling [laughter] ah one thing is it might not be totally accurate to the way we usually do come language but that's fine it'll <unk> [laughter] um so that's all kinds of announcements on the way and and general general hoopla um <unk> i don't know why that were [noise] but uh our topic for today is <unk> or if you're a class this is like william <unk> ah so um i think most of our audience will have the general idea oh i i went to <unk> for example a for example to be it's it's just usually <unk> we were um <unk> the links um subjects to predicates usually sort of uh like um a <unk> relationship or a classic uh tori relationship uh really william has has several different meanings that can help but yeah it is i mean [noise] i think i might have been the one who put this on the topic let's [noise] mhm 'cause it really is a huge topic it gets in oxford red book so there's an entire book on the subject um a lot of what my notes come from is <unk> basic linguistic theory volume two which has an entire chapter on these um can be a lot more interesting than most of us know in my opinion [noise] um [noise] so [noise] terminology i'm going to use all the time is copy the subject and cook it a compliment because some people don't like using that were credit was <unk> because it seems a little weird for theoretical reasons i don't understand or care about [laughter] [laughter] um follow that terminology here just because most of the stuff i look at you [laughter] um i just said a credit you should be indicates her relation rather than referencing some kind of activity [noise] all right and they <unk> list is identity so he has a dog attribute <unk> large possession in mine [noise] manufacturing it for me and location he is a doggie daycare [laughter] um and a true credit <unk> well absolutely identify uh absolutely have the function of at least the first at <unk> at least do identity mhm it will probably do attribute [noise] but you have some languages um we don't care for adjectives and calculus complement position either because they're addicted they're actually like um or for other reasons they just don't care for it so in some languages i think <unk> is one you cannot say you know he is good you have to say he is a good boy oh okay okay um our favorite exact language chinese does the same thing or you don't you you you say like <unk> very good right now what is good is like a uh a state of for um so yeah that that that that works out a lot a lot um [noise] so is so to be is one in english uh sorry i'm losing my thoughts [laughter] [noise] uh you guys you guys i think are more prepared than i am [laughter] on all of this stuff but um beyond sort of the the journal function in the <unk> there's different ways that you that that uh <unk> so some languages don't have a <unk> you don't you don't need a calculator all well you don't have <unk> sort of i'm not sure that is true you definitely have languages which do not have a perfect match for me mhm but i'm not aware of it so <unk> so far we've been talking about it but there are plenty of other issues that [noise] work basically the same in terms of structure and k. parking funniness we'll get two and a moment so me is a <unk> become <unk> um ah christopher you had a list of the ones apparently dutch goes to the <unk> the <unk> yeah it does <unk> which means basic <unk> verbs mhm and uh uh be each one of course <unk> of order to be calm but then you're a blazing which means to remain so uh so to remain a certain way for instance uh and the horse only <unk> which uh blake <unk> done couldn't afford coleman which means uh both older mean uh to appeal to seem which is also uh which is also connecting for er basically you you ah you <unk> you turn look in english as well yeah you're <unk> [noise] uh hate to which means to be cold is ah <unk> ah a couple of episodes and dutch [noise] so i am called ah stuff <unk> pissed off if it's considered <unk> basically <unk> and of course you can uh uh you you you have all the ways to do with <unk> with uh uh uh kind of seeing the names er in er dutch i can which means to touch ah can be used as an equivalent of toby mhm uh really what's the if there was some what's the difference in meaning um so [noise] [noise] it's well it's it's it's ah it's it's it's it's similar to to to be to be calm it's uh it's <unk> it's it's difficult to say if it means is that something is actually uh changing you so <unk> you're but uh but it can be used we <unk> we <unk> oh so yeah it's it's it's it's nothing quickly we don't have to offer to to be um um without <unk> grown up enough to be calm okay mhm [laughter] yourself fallen on the other hand can be a which means two for uh can be kind of an equivalent to to be mm okay that's <unk> that's an example i have is it's uh it's feeding them <unk> to sort of africa which means uh it was it was difficult for him to handle the uh the goodbyes <unk> means in this case it was difficult for him i mean it's it's means er an eternity eats <unk> heavy okay that looks like you could um [noise] that's that that sounds like something we could bring up again when we talking about [noise] sort of <unk> chronic some source was uh oh yeah that's interesting [noise] looks like things uh like these develop into this is what kinds of <unk> could develop into <unk> um revising a little bit when i was when i was saying i could say you know you can have a language that at least has some constructions <unk> yes you could say like you know you could have languages are where you're able to say as soon as he is a ducks he a duck and write as the <unk> yeah basically <unk> basically when you're talking about the <unk> the the basic one the one which doesn't <unk> uh uh any <unk> specific uh meaning to eat in a quite a few languages can simply <unk> can be a direct connection mhm <unk> important right we're talking about uh concept of a copy of though and it doesn't have to be a specific separate work in construction mhm yeah yeah and uh will actually get into a little bit about how sort of they get [noise] um so we have we have zero possible we had um just straight up verb <unk> to be is it <unk> as over it it works as a verb or <unk> technically it doesn't work exactly like other <unk> but it's basically over um and that's another um way of having computers or they can be sort of like just <unk> they're not like <unk> or just sort of there are functional element that doesn't take the same kind of morphology that verbs do um [noise] i'll take <unk> to adjust to invaluable for they can take different types of morphology or different make different sort of agreement distinctions or things like that yeah right it's important to say though that in many languages that have like <unk> they act more or less like regular her [noise] there are still cases where they do not <unk> for example they typically do not um fall into your normal they lindsay changing morphology you do not get cause it is oh the simple identity <unk> that just doesn't happen right oh makes sense because [noise] <unk> actually cause to me doesn't completely weird cause to become is much more likely to occur hum what's also happens <unk> either going to be defective it's when you have the same forms of as a as a number of uh right in in one of my <unk> my favorite languages for instance in a more than a greek <unk> easter basically uh we up <unk> which is kind of <unk> ah <unk> he'd like a deep on them to <unk> so he does [noise] kind of <unk> like <unk> like endings but they're somewhat different from the norm or buses and eat to eat the lax uh the number distinction in this uh persons that the same uh fall for <unk> and <unk> and <unk> and <unk> <unk> right i think he doesn't have to have an hour east it doesn't tough uh there's no one continuous uh sort of jumped eve offshoot <unk> eat only has ah the <unk> and the perfect right and er and er <unk> er <unk> and <unk> and this this continues what was true in ancient greek it had a patch it had a presence in the future uh and there was no aspects distinction in the past it only had with that are they going to say what what they look like because they're so weird but um yeah that also is normal for simple copy a lot to be <unk> as yeah as for stuff that defected missing [noise] um and that gets a very complicated when you add negotiation so it may operate completely differently from other once negated for example there might be an entirely different birds she it was it [noise] um or uh it will then become defective and in the negative negative where it has the full compliment attempted aspects in positive is missing some of the negative that could happen to any <unk> depending you know across languages um but it's somewhat more likely to happen to be <unk> um also in the negative since we're on that you can get funny distinctions where [noise] negative looks perfectly normal for some parts of those relations i talked about like identity attribute possession um but <unk> behave weirdly for some subset of those are they <unk> [noise] mhm [noise] i i like the uh the <unk> because it's a kind of <unk> kind of <unk> <unk> he has the most of the same for almost a verb but for some reason the people don't go through the <unk> and it's kind of different yeah so it's it's it's a weird little thing it's uh definitely we have a <unk> we have the ah it's it's it's on a very we are [laughter] so do i need to uh uh some chinese people i do think like you know it's hard to say in chinese <unk> is a verb or not but i can i do think that it can't really take that old but i can't it can't really take aspect watching like burgers usually do yeah i've never heard of <unk> <unk> yeah yeah that was that what was that even me [laughter] it's like ah i experienced being this in the past few weird i guess they cut it makes sense [laughter] but uh yeah um i'd have to i'd have to ask you about that [noise] maybe other people but i don't think you can take aspirin marking like other verbs yeah um and we will actually be talking about where that comes from a little bit um moving on i found i found which paper these categories are coming from it's uh the current now paper yeah i don't know how to pronounce his name correctly but i think it looks like her now [noise] um the the next one this is um not particularly common but some languages have and what's called and inflection real popular construction right and um basically there's not really <unk> you'll have per se but credit kitten itself or the or to use the terminology um the coffee like complement itself yes some <unk> morphology either directly or uh like <unk> west greenland nicky and suffix ooh she went down and that becomes the verb to be ex right um so um [noise] <unk> it's <unk> if you say i am a man you just stick the normal um urban functional morphology straight onto that i [noise] i like that i liked that stuff but i like that idea um um although which you know it's not it's not eh this notes that it's not particularly common but it's an interesting um it's it's an interesting strategy to go about it sort of you know and you could you could even see go if it's like the west greenland that ah [noise] <unk> be interesting to think where it is <unk> come from a historical popular or what [noise] so um those are the basic sort of construction that that the the basic types of copyright constructions you can you can sort of choose from and one the one thing to sue no dishes up uh [noise] some <unk> actually <unk> maybe many languages have more than one uh uh <unk> <unk> can be in a somewhat free ah up the nation but it's most quite often they have a <unk> in some <unk> some kind of ah restricted environment and the other one you know not in an office environment [noise] uh i think for instance of i'd rather be can i think he was always kind of the same in that they have a direct connection you know the presents [laughter] but as soon as you want to uh to use a computer in the past you have to have uh and like for her being used to in the i think in a in a <unk> cat now something like that yeah yeah yeah <unk> yeah arabic is interesting and we'll get to that that we have a paper that's can talk a little bit about uh that talks a little bit above hebrew and um it's uh it seems like modern hebrew is actually developing now are you a new president <unk> yeah that that's coming from pronouns <unk> which is yeah we'll get to that in the moment that's a common yeah half way to go so what did they just want to mention quickly while we're on this um in those languages which have zero popular it's almost never used or location in english we can say i am at the store mhm and uh uh uh zero copy of the language they going to prefer a verbal posture <unk> four location so i am you know i stand at the store i said it whatever you know is the default choice [noise] um but uh that's also one thing i've noticed and uh actually made use of it in in in <unk> [noise] don't tough to indicate er location squirts <unk> used to live out in the european languages where er computers or or <unk> used for uh <unk> to be uh <unk> in french and uh or or those corporate ah in in all the language <unk> used for education [noise] it doesn't have to be that's way to <unk> be restricted to ah adjust identity definition [noise] uh attribute <unk> sometimes not even so it's so you don't have to uh to <unk> to to use the <unk> [noise] where are you shouldn't have you know <unk> with more familiar is you you had to have a particular popular or portland condition that different from your identity popular right there's and there's usually a historically are posture verbs yeah [noise] okay um are we ready for me to talk about the very fun business of alignment within [noise] yes yes okay so let's talk a little bit about er good tiffany for people who have might have forgotten [noise] um when talking about transit authority and whether herbs system is nominated accused of or or to actually do you think about fundamentally three row [noise] that hey non trays or pronoun can play in a sentence you could have the agent public transit <unk> make tea [noise] you can have the ads are subject which is seventy seven in trenton to me it's gets very confusing because most of us are used to subject meaning both subject and agent but in the fall um discussion keep them separate and then you can have the object of a trend server [noise] so that team that i was making earlier i make the team [noise] in the majority of language in it <unk> subject is that is to say it is [noise] mark the same way at the subject of an interest in that of her [noise] that kind of makes sense [noise] it's not you're standing in a relationship not an actual event however there are some languages such as <unk> for example which doesn't use the agent barking rather than the subject marking right so but already languages <unk> but it's i know and the phone number of other languages it as much as the agent we talked about arabic awhile ago which <unk> when did exist patterns as a transit over the um calculus complement it in the accused of [noise] yeah i love it [laughter] and i will tell you why i love it because that's exactly what i didn't <unk> okay [laughter] um in terms of uh word order your copy level typically fall in your subject you're agent position and they <unk> um [noise] compliment and the object condition again that's expected [noise] if you have a language with quote unquote free word order you expect the word order to be a good deal less free in <unk> constructions especially sense in many most languages you don't have um [noise] the different kinds of case marketing to clarify was doing what's doing what 'cause calculus different in that regard [noise] um so we're not rich tend to be stricter we should we should mention um [noise] one thing about um the <unk> if you have uh the the the ah calculus subject being seem as yes [noise] and which often the the the copier complement is also mark the same as uh yeah actually is also usually the unmarked ah case for right there are a small number of language in which it must languages he mm uh agent well let's go nominated accused of and most languages <unk> is on march accused of in march [noise] in most bigoted absolute languages are gonna have his mark the absolutely not um in a small number of languages that have marked nominate two [noise] what happens all possibilities for <unk> subject and copy a compliment exist in some english or after um [laughter] i did not type of the <unk> from <unk> book but he's got it it they're all possibilities [laughter] okay [noise] i know that didn't japanese for instance um japanese mocks both the <unk> with that particular guy and the actually the <unk> the <unk> the <unk> is not <unk> right exactly and that's normal um or or that's very common or at least <unk> version to me the <unk> complement so uh there's a australian language <unk> which has a zero copy look construction blocks it marks the um <unk> subject or get him <unk> identity so i am a doctor [noise] um but uses the absolute <unk> before echinacea and [noise] i am tired yeah so you can get different kinds of working [noise] depending on uh what exactly is going on in the copy them which of these five rolls we've mentioned um it was going on [laughter] um and then once again getting back to the negative the subject the calculus subject maybe quite ah interesting in the negative [noise] finished used his knee part a tip kate and russian uses <unk> <unk> <unk> in a negative in the negative <unk> okay russian also has like the weird faces of the habit zero <unk> only in prison right mm [noise] um yeah and they're all languages we choose to zero <unk> first and second person <unk> four foot person to have to have a computer for the person you have that that's where i am yes [noise] yeah there's there's all sorts of an interesting uh stuck [laughter] um [noise] uh yes we said that um you can use uh in addition to this identity versus attribute <unk> thing um you might have variation in how the copy of a compliment is mark too and coat things like they said oh distinction that is [noise] are you talking about a long time permanent attribute or identity or something that's temporary yeah um and this was fun uh i found that in a small number of languages popular complement to pronouns like me having entirely separate instinct for [laughter] mm i don't think they're any uh any language is the <unk> only for that [noise] um but interesting things go on with pronouns [laughter] it was interesting to me it's that's not in my speech at least that's not a particularly common [noise] you [noise] in french we use the [noise] um <unk> you would call that the empathetic forms of the <unk> yeah maybe ah ah a computer compliments we say say more right <unk> uh spider shoes <unk> porn [noise] <unk> yeah [noise] um i guess it happens more often than i thought if you've seen him english english <unk> have you have like a disagreement uh some people insisting you should use the <unk> oh i know i i think it's clear that it should be me yeah [laughter] yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean i don't know the the people who are using the <unk> it's on it's mostly a prescriptions thing uh uh people okay yeah um so that's one less thing about uh alignment is even in language was extremely complex polly personal marking if the <unk> like it will typically only be marked for the <unk> subject yeah screw off on a bus for instance which is ah it's <unk> it's um it's a basic basically ah behaves luck on in front of the two for [noise] uh-huh right they can have up to both direct object in direct object yes and no direct oh checked you know ah subject direct object indirect object [noise] which sometimes you see in strange we have to <unk> protect ah the <unk> the computer i can take the ah the subject and direct object oh okay interesting but right um so that's an interesting way in which there at this stinks um another thing um that it's pretty likely is that it's entirely possible for the copy love to be the only irregular over in a language [noise] [noise] um and they and when they do it they tend to be really really irregular <unk> well obviously looking like look at english you know we can we can look look at any european language and we see uh <unk> up to be are usually the most your regular sure but that that's not that i mean that's true cross linguistic that's not just a a weird yeah i know i know i know i know but you know obviously you know english you just have to memorize every single for there's not even you know most of our regular verbs have some patterns to them but um that's <unk> that's true sort of cross linguistically is is the interesting thing for companies 'cause you know yeah you can go crazy with your um what's your <unk> <unk> you're like oh maybe it's a good place to practice that it's just start it's just one per yeah <unk> and one in one part of it is that [noise] different parts of your inflection whole system for your popular might actually have different historical sources you might get back yeah we'll get to <unk> all sorts of funding one thing that i was gonna mentioned earlier but i missed on my list is um [noise] in some languages you can have <unk> is what that means is to have just the <unk> the subject english does not allow this although sometimes you in bed fantasy movies [noise] um so you can use it to know existence dogs are meaning their dogs um or sometimes occurrence these days many accidents are effectively many accidents happen [noise] um actually i have an exam putting english where <unk> using one of <unk> oh i think they're far i am oh oh okay [laughter] um no that's a difference okay there's a sense of to be that actually means to exist yeah [noise] which i think that is what that is the same is ah in to be or not to be that means to exist or not to exist yeah yeah i need to think about it because um the only other place that um i can think of where people regularly quote amount of failing calculus in english is um out of the old testament [laughter] i'm not both of them are sort of elevated youth so maybe english was happier with this at one point that it is now i don't think i may not be as productive now yeah which is something like that is a perfectly happy everywhere mhm is there anything else you want to talk about before we move on to his story [noise] uh i think i think we can move on [noise] to <unk> did you want to talk about um that's historical what about the left is locations um george that you mentioned is that historical or that's that's relating to the historical okay all right so in the first place verbs of posture can give her eyes to <unk> um that happens in a bunch of romance languages yes [laughter] so it's very strange in uh an issue i guess <unk> combined two separate [laughter] into one one of which meant to stab <unk> yeah and so and then there's that other one meaning sit in there somewhere yes yes and so that's why you get started being the the lucrative popular in the <unk> [noise] basically state right wow um states um [noise] whereas sad i see is that's the one that combine to the part of the original latin popular in addition to sit various forms of sit there and and um and uh you know a bunch of different um [noise] [noise] and uh that's that's the uh just the uh regular old identity and uh yep assigning properties and all that [noise] a french at uh <unk> it's closer to <unk> just too sad <unk> although it does <unk> does have a few uh fall and if that's <unk> not that many but uh a few yeah [noise] right so it it isn't to those terms of posture which frequently get um [noise] watered down um verbs like to live or to do well can be a source fickle yeah exist that makes sense [noise] more surprisingly go <unk> um and do this and as a verb [noise] from it sort of original meaning into calculus sense it may retain traces of its original said it might still i mean they may both might exist completely both <unk> completely in the language and you just have to tell from context [noise] or you know the movements to copy that might have happened but there might be some interesting restrictions for example a star it's four location and state which makes sense because that's a common um conceptual metaphor is that being in a state is actually being in a location mhm <unk> even the language i'm using in [laughter] in <unk> in a location um another source of <unk> are demonstrative and third person <unk> uh-huh so in languages that do this i mean you can get funny some things like why he the doctor means and the doctor and then over time what will happen is or can happen is the pronoun or demonstrative criticize that we'll get reduced in some other ways at a pronouns you'll be invented to pick up the slack [noise] i don't know if that's necessarily like i see the doctors necessarily the best way to illustrate i think it's usually be more like the man he doctor right and it i mean it's like and i'm an actor is where start but as it moves forward you can you can perfectly easily get uh some other pro it on the subject yeah okay yeah eventually so our our paper we have a paper here that's called the cockpit cycle that has a lot of sort of examples of this happening and it's both um pronouns and also do <unk> do this too yeah i i read the the er the interesting part not only the <unk> ah personal pronouncing demonstrative could do that but sometimes you get all the things get doing that like uh positions or even a focus <unk> right and um <unk> the focus marker makes me think [noise] st job something interesting too because um a big part of what i speak is happens uh based on stuff i was reading sifting through um ah i'll i'll i will i will warn people this uh <unk> paper is ah it's um framed in minimum <unk> and you don't really understand i have to understand the the <unk> through and like look at the examples and like the the general description of things working because he's like some some sources on chinese and <unk> bunch of other languages uh turkish hebrew shrine in um oh talking about different path ways of derivation and the the main points or things that we're gonna cover here but um [noise] i think the interesting thing is like what happens with like using the <unk> let me see if i can get ah some chinese examples so like the have examples of you're chinese it's a <unk> that became the copier yeah incredible chinese <unk> means of this right and so like they start out with um there's an example sure are <unk> uh <unk> uh no <unk> no isn't use him this not kind so the idea is that the the populace subject then obviously this is from a corpus so it's not a super clean but it's it's like a pause almost that was the uh the copy a subject that got <unk> and then you had uh this inserted in there and that sort of gave the gave the environment for it to be reanalyze as a cop you all right and there's other places where you get things moved to the left and and you got some some uh some pronoun or um demonstrative inserted [noise] or you can just have something like inserted just as sort of like a an <unk> an emphasis type of thing but it's it's sort of you can see where like <unk> focus sham and up sleigh seeing these things at places where they end up being reanalyze as calculus 'cause they're in the right place for it or doing or just so often used in what's effectively about popular construction that they become interpreted as necessary fundamental to to the construction right yeah i mean there's lots of interesting historical stuff the paper yeah whenever i like these papers i'm not doing it because of the theory because i'm interested in in the film whatever they're trying to explain the theory yeah yeah i just i just uh what to help people like get to what's most useful con language yeah 'cause i can i can actually understand where he's where he's coming from with his theory but i don't think that's really anything that's necessary for companies to understand um um [noise] anything else to say about that i just wanted to mention that one something and i think it was <unk> <unk> it becomes available for you in the many many auxiliary constructions that use the <unk> imminent effective [noise] progressive <unk> all of that sort of stuff um that we talked about a few episodes back that be and be like herbs can become once that happens off you go yeah um it's <unk> it's quite interesting to see how all these different kinds of of words just sort of lose their identity and become a basic <unk> yep and uh even even when the world <unk> exists and he's used as a <unk> a world in <unk> ah ah ah an <unk> like uh in the american <unk> where uh where they have at the <unk> ah the press on computer which she's uh who are <unk> which is basically the <unk> [noise] uh single pronoun but although although it's see identical to the <unk> it can be used even when the ah computer subject is first person second person that <unk> doesn't matter the <unk> the <unk> the same oh that'd be interesting and that can be that can be the most interesting if you want to apply this to uh a con line because you can give evidence sort of show your work like giving evidence of what the the historical source was um and you know show that you're calling has this weird thing because at some point a pronoun became a popular and it still used in both both ways [noise] right um yeah you can also have the opposite thing which i <unk> i saw in one of the papers yet that's your husband that <unk> uh confines of the moments where they had the <unk> the uh think towards the <unk> ah the gender of the of the subject [noise] whereas <unk> end up language doesn't months' agenda off the subject because that's called period i came from an demonstrative right um i don't even have the opposite <unk> basically you're kind of free to the question about those things with corporate us yes mhm um there's this um these ones for hunter ray i don't know so much about what usual verbs would be i don't think they have the same kind of thing since the [noise] the um the <unk> but the cop yellow marks intimate inanimate and and um it also march stakes is um proximate or distant um which which um that probably <unk> like visible versus the rights of his right so that definitely looks like it came from a demonstrative yeah it yeah then it came from <unk> but it seems that they shifted demeaning in the process to <unk> [noise] so that's that's an interesting [noise] i mean that's always fun with this process which has horrible name traumatic <unk> mhm is at any given moment it'd languages history you're going to be somewhere along this process from it it is er <unk> original her original <unk> has the oldest meaning but it is also use or <unk> or whatever is used in its original meaning completely and fully in addition to beginning to me is to represent a copy of construction or whatever construction [laughter] and then as you move time the original <unk> gets further and further and further away but even quite far from the originating situation a little bit of the history of their originating herb we'll hang out like you know spanish style is you know an example of no longer means literally to stay under there's another her for that [noise] um but some of the some antics still hang out and constrained how the the working against [noise] um and that <unk> i mean that just would copy lets us with any historical process but um [noise] it looks like there's so many different sources for copy that she could have many ranges a possibility and fun with it anyway so that's historical any one wants to say anything else about the historical fun [noise] um [noise] uh do we want to talk about i didn't really get to where copy lives can become aspects [noise] yeah i mean <unk> highly commonly used or sometimes lose their own accent <unk> in fact in early in the european we think all verbs <unk> including they had no accent of their own they had to follow some other meaning baron word [noise] onto which they can go home they could attack themselves and take the accent i think it's on the heavy i worked for accented indoor european was too weird it's like [laughter] you will [laughter] and they said this retain in ancient greek most diverse have their own acts said except that uh um a bunch of forms of the popular [laughter] um which aren't clinic and a half you know in that place is very <unk> very it's constraints on them so once you've started down that path then it becomes really easy to switch to oh this is just an ethics that attaches to the mountains like uh a language like perjury and um i think it is that right you know what i'm going to step back for that because i haven't checked but yeah you can get populace that just um are <unk> that attached to somewhere they might attach tune the complement they might attached to the first already in the clause and you just have to figure out what the compliment really is [noise] depends on the word order constraints of the language george or you're looking for something uh no i'm done um so yeah that's that's as far as i understood it i i was just um asking about that part of it but um [noise] yeah i think in general this is a uh a good overview for people and i will be posting the things uh there's someone who complained about um an email about uh sometimes are links to these papers die oh yeah that's not such a complaint as a sad [laughter] reality life well i i mean i'm not i'm not saying it's er i i'm glad that the <unk> this up um so i think i'm going to change the way that i do that either i'm going to do like author year entitle or i can't i can literally just ah the way that i'm reading the papers now i can <unk> just hit a button and get a four minutes <unk> if i'm like okay so i guess i could i could give people but and that way when the links die they can look them up i will be going back and doing that for all previous <unk> any time [noise] that right that would be a long slug but for future episodes i will try to give give the these academics sources and i waited and it's a little bit easier to search for in case links die holy cow i was just trying to verify the mike persian statement it turns out to be true we keep <unk> has an entire article on <unk> european calculus [laughter] okay [laughter] maybe we last night linked to that [laughter] that's true yeah that's good good good [noise] who [laughter] how did that that find this okay anyway so are we done here [noise] ah yeah i think so um [noise] <unk> and well i won't say what is going to say go forth and makeup this [laughter] i yeah okay like restaurants you have to get it [noise] it's <unk> basically that's it um as long as you can ah <unk> ah praised in a way that can be understood as as a part of it being <unk> go ahead and do it's yeah they're they're basically nearly anything can be comical uh a computer and i really wanna see some common lengths come up with weird <unk> that like because they come from a democracy news or or pronouns or from something else funny that they have like the weird morphology let's totally different i want to oprah that comes from uh from the post position i did too <unk> marker yeah [laughter] that that seems very reasonable actually i did when i saw a shorter to go ahead <unk> actually uh <unk> in some uh some of the firm forms of the japanese <unk> <unk> they come from it that's oh there was one that was so it was one in one of these papers that was like two things put together i'm done it yet i <unk> well that seems also likely yeah <unk> of some kind of <unk> a japanese uh the the normal foremost <unk> corporate you stop and if you take it in the nicotine it becomes the one night which ken nice pretty b. and the lives of the political day which she <unk> used to which i was a <unk> in the uh japanese is uh something called marco why it's actually a return the typical marker and as um uh negative <unk> uh <unk> which is basically the uh the negative form of <unk> you know in that you make her sing interesting [noise] i i didn't really crossed um one or two interesting suggestions that some languages not very many very small number have classic uh tori <unk> [noise] that is to say they have a copy of uh or a stable of calculus that each one is only used with particular kinds of subjects like whether or emotional states but it it's very difficult the analysis difficult if might actually just beam verbs that are only use with those um terms it's not always clear that they're actually copy list i don't think it's impossible that you could come up with coffee lives declassified are that are only use with certain kinds of now um at that certainly possible but a big chunk of them like you get into classifying language like say navajos lots of class victoria verbs um i wouldn't expect to have <unk> uh just through another thing there was one example inch here of uh mixed mixed tax apparently has an existential becoming a cop you'll uh specifically for adjectives uh-huh uh-huh citing someone who works here so maybe i can ask ask monica macaulay about yeah um what she thinks about looks like he's sort of realizing what she said okay so from from the fact that we tried to stop but kept going should tell you how interesting copy of those really are yeah [laughter] very interesting though and here's here's the only thing i was looking for <unk> uh let's see it's um it's a combination of this and such [noise] oh oh ah and neither one of them can take any <unk> we're inflections but you put them together it's uh it's like hand <unk> and then <unk> and take bourbon selections [laughter] <unk> [laughter] so in in conclusion go ahead and and and be wise too with your ah <unk> and uh it's likely that uh once again and that thing <unk> it didn't to already what's worse yeah [laughter] um and uh i forgive me forgive me for giving me every any <unk> speakers for my bad pronunciation but um [noise] uh i have to read this example of course they have an example uh washy too macho is i'm a white man [laughter] okay and you still sentence and the <unk> the code [laughter] right foot [noise] [laughter] [noise] okay so how much i don't know um i should ask my <unk> my uh my friends who work on on um i should ask my friends who work on suing languages but yes but um anyway that well we could probably talk for another hour above stuff if we if we kept <unk> searching through <unk> and stuff but i am going to put these we've got like four papers free free guys to look at it well it's like free papers in their hand out but the hand out is fifteen pages yeah [laughter] yeah you you some long handouts sometimes [laughter] [laughter] oh yeah it's just there's a whole <unk> the whole thing or something [laughter] [noise] um [noise] well uh i mean it's handy 'cause basically a whole paper it's handy if you're not at the conference um upgrade so uh that's all we have four today and uh go look at the con like a movie that's going to be where we will we will let you know when the kick started strikes for that um uh look at our patriotic on give us they give us money by nice things for the show uh uh this this will be helpful since i won't i won't have a whole lot of money i will have [noise] i am getting a t._a. but i'll probably end up having less money 'cause i'm having a pet right [laughter] oh congratulations and getting a <unk> i have to spend all my new money on on diapers um [noise] so [noise] with all of that i'm gonna say african [noise] thank you for listening to con lying or you could find our archives in sherman oaks <unk> dot com [noise] support us on patriotic <unk> patriotic dot com slash con lying or [noise] you can also find those hon baseball quarter and blue <unk> all of those aren't hotline hearing [noise] and if you would like to hear your timeline featured on top of the show you could look that par kirby k. has the score and what you translate how to [noise] [noise] <unk> face was provided by some language creates in society and our music is by no nevada [noise]

Tags

  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. conlang
  4. copula
  5. language
  6. linguistics

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 110 Copulae (last edited 2017-09-09 21:49:09 by TranscriBot)