Conlangery #117: Kash

Conlangery #117: Kash

Published: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 03:50:04 +0000 \

Content from the Conlangery Podcast is licenced as Creative Commons Attribution - Non Commercial - Share-Alike. You are free to copy, distribute, remix, and create derivative works from the show, so long as you give attribution, your work is not commercial in nature, and you also use a the same license on your own product. The same licence therefore applies to the following transcript.

Transcript

utterance-id1 yes <unk> <unk> i am <unk> i <unk> [noise] <unk> language and the people who are <unk> really with me down the road wages louisiana [noise] and uh they we are <unk> drink it online it's been a little while since we've done uh featured tonight so we should do it and this one the one we were going to be doing today is kosh uh you may know about it because it won last year's smiling if you don't know <unk> is just an award that david peterson awards to con legs that make you smile so uh i wanna just did it ended up giving it a horse too they're used to be on the opposite bulletin board kind of like a war but i don't know people still do that outside what district forming institution random people invite you to talk some very well talk about stuff so mhm uh william you've had a quick sort of side bar that you you wanted to to mentioned before we get to talking about cash no that we should have talked about this before we got into <unk> so um just because this is a sort of thing that interests me i was sort of doing some research on middle persian and invest in recently and that's when i started to learn about just the magnificent be writing system so some people call <unk> they confuse it and they use it to name the language middle person but that's not quite right the rating system was used to write several um iranian languages um uh <unk> which is one um middle persian mostly associated with um <unk> is another but there's also romantic hand middle persian which is a little bit different [noise] so the rating system is based on <unk> like so many riding systems in the region but because of how the letters were written overtime distinction between different letters disappear [noise] so that the original arabic elizabeth uh twenty two letters has been reduced to twelve meaning that uh single mark may referred to three or four <unk> oh right yeah this is you know the sort of thing that led arabic to acquire tops for things that were otherwise identical [noise] um so fine you're writing your middle persian whatever dialect in this uh rating system missing all sorts of stuff about <unk> except for the long bottles again keeping with arabic practice um [noise] but because of the people first writing this we're also fluent in <unk> a huge per cent of any <unk> text is going to be here make words with middle persian grammar hanging off them [noise] mm [noise] um they're called <unk> [noise] um and they were such a problem early that pretty early in the history of the language there were dictionaries appease oh to help people cope so at any given text there's a good chunk of kind of arab <unk> i mean they're called <unk> because they're based on air make but you never know which form of what word is going to be picked [noise] so many of your verbs are in the third person in perspective aromatic spelling and then they attack you know the whatever the middle persian grammar so so this is you you were talking about this earlier and so what the deal is like thirty years reason to believe these were just pronounced it as the middle persian word yep but there's spell the miramax yep it's like the worst [laughter] thing ever it's not even it's not even like you can understand like using <unk> japanese like okay we use the the the chinese rating system and then we pronounce it japanese but no you are spelling him hey <unk> grading system of another language something that's gonna be pronounced totally different like they'll get yeah crazy to me however um that's the practice apparently that was chance chat three practice that was the practice and remains practice in um <unk> medicating texts ditched the arab <unk> spelled everything it phonetically okay so that made life easier but then there's also pause and which is what happens when you had middle persian commentaries on the best uh [noise] um but they wanted those to be clear so instead of being written in the past that'd be riding system it's all spelled out in the <unk> and writing system um with various conventions and weirdness is associated with that as well so there are lots of ways to write persian [noise] okay well uh sorry for that <unk> i just thought it was no marvelous that more prevention that's really interesting i i wish we could spend more time on that but we have other plans for the <unk> all right so some background about uh <unk> uh it was created by roger mills and uh he he was strongly influenced by um <unk> the left hand of darkness and <unk> was sort of intended for a similar story too that where someone goes to this planet called <unk> and meets the cost [noise] uh so you've created cash and a little bit of uh um um another lunches to two other like your other languages um that are uh what <unk> <unk> languages or the other ones there's which what are the names the other two there's um quarter and <unk> and probably right i know that there's um good or learn words in here right we should mention that that roger meals or something to calm like mailing list for a long time he passed away he was it was very active in the community and uh passed away when was it again uh late last year i <unk> i can get the day that may have been <unk> influence on the decision to for the future it took so it's talks about the this was spoken by and alien species but not much detail is given the fact that it's based on uh on <unk> <unk> work or conspired by <unk> my my hunch is that they <unk> they're they're roughly human life and the chronology looks pretty pretty human like anyway [noise] um [noise] i mean my fingers in science fiction aliens or just someone's decided to pick out a particular aspect of humanity and turn it into an entire culture [noise] yeah very often i mean with some authors go full alien anthropology but most dumped mhm um there are on his website various things related to um culture and history of this world um and since i focus mostly um grammar documentation they're also notes about you know native <unk> having opinions about things and schoolteachers having opinions about things yes yes and um [noise] i have uh a couple of things to mentioned about that but um but yeah it's always fun to see that um some <unk> from uh the uh the local <unk> and such because uh you know they think i think of it this way now uh just sort of to get started as we usually do uh phonology i mean not so much in the in the <unk> the stops are playing versus <unk> yes although it seems <unk> seemed to behave a lot like like they're just voice than than the pre <unk> extra or something but um [noise] the interesting thing in the phonology is these um sunday rules were you know you get all kinds of changes based on you know true consummate butting up against each other uh such as you get any nasal against any cricket do they call us into the corresponding stop and it looks like it takes the place from the cricket so he has so like he has examples uh um and uh <unk> go to tea uh <unk> um cook goat okay so yeah it's taking the the place from the cricket but these uh these whole lesson become to stop [noise] in uh another one that i enjoyed is any nasal <unk> l becomes um mm yeah yeah so it becomes the <unk> the <unk> so that's an interesting thing in something that um that david pointed out in his um in in the his right up for the smiley is that ah these are universally applied so you can have this idea that you can think about apparently you know this happens a lot of these these sunday rules apply a lot with morphology but you mentioned what is that um that you find in the future forms that the the sunday applies when you have nasal <unk> a nasal at the end of the foul you get the cold lessons and stuff but in the past tense forms that doesn't happen right um language is um moderately prefix thing mhm and some of these changes make me think a little bit about indonesian and i think that roger new either mainly or indonesian [noise] <unk> um [noise] it's not identical [noise] in all cases certainly but it seems that seems to be some inspiration there yeah so that's that's interesting so so there are the the changes themselves are are very like interesting not things that are usually see in a <unk> but not crazy i could i could see these kinds of things happening in in uh a natural language too [noise] um if you have time to visit his web site he has a large document <unk> changes [noise] which is from our <unk> fine [laughter] there's just there's a huge amount of stuff going on [noise] uh okay so um william why aren't you take you have a uh a lot more uh stuff about ah grammar and stuff than i have written down so why don't they pick the right here um it has a native writing system which also looks inspired by south east asian writing systems um it's uh <unk> though mhm you have the little eyeballs on the <unk> ah you know i <unk> yeah um but the <unk> the vows or just follow letters search that you know [noise] um the <unk> the complexity that you get out of themes in you know say thai or wow [noise] mhm [noise] um [noise] for some reason he put his discussion of intonation and the syntax section [noise] yes but ah but there's a lot going on there certainly more than most calling or bother with yeah that's that's worth looking at a little bit it's nice that he taught her to write all of that down [noise] mm yeah i i liked that um you do have to sort of read screws explanation yeah uh what his um particular notation is when you're looking through it but yeah it's very good yeah this is this is a very old school a web page to <unk> to small the text goes from argentina margin so [noise] um there's yeah there's a lot of reading going on yeah the language has modest mouse it free <unk> um intensity it's one thing that gets <unk> but there's also reciprocal some trips in various kinds of um [noise] just sort of routine lexical wised things that aren't necessarily obviously to educational <unk> um as i said the morphology is moderately prefix thing both for inflection [noise] um <unk> [noise] <unk> <unk> i didn't notice any in fixes which i would've expected from someone super familiar with um austin asian languages but maybe he just decided that was too much um moving on to them [noise] i'm an ounce distinguish animate versus inanimate um and <unk> he calls inanimate neuter by the way right um and that comes up because the pronoun <unk> ah distinguish masculine feminine and neuter in the sink either [noise] mm [noise] and they just english adamant versus <unk> [noise] <unk> <unk> um and the language is pretty sensitive to <unk> all over the place <unk> which cases you use um all uh often reference animosity in general [noise] um i don't know how i don't know if they're anywhere it's necessarily that mismatch um they're sort of <unk> class versus the sort of natural and see if that has any sort of [noise] the fiction i didn't notice anything about that [noise] <unk> other language has four cases nominate <unk> been accused of um which behaved funny waste we'll get two and a moment noun phrases pretty standard for of e._s._l. language qualifiers come before the non phrase and pretty much everything else follows [noise] mhm um anything that marks number like numbers or qualifiers um each checked overt several marking on uh [noise] <unk> um which again happens in natural language is um in terms of ah there's all sorts of case <unk> going on which is pretty fun [noise] um well thought out in my opinion in the sense of he just sat down to think about stuff [noise] um [noise] the accused of this case um it's pretty fun for human object [noise] because you could only use the accused new case for people when the object has i rather high object to it that is some sort of actual physical interaction for the most part [noise] right and that database used otherwise so for example verbs of perception like see [noise] for a human direct object takes the data mhm um and then he makes and now that the system is breaking down a bit and that you're you're never going to be wrong except for a school teacher if you're just always use a data for a human direct object right regard and number semantics and uh i know the whole thing is that since the accused <unk> is so restrictive the uh inanimate mouths don't even have accused of warm [noise] so that they have the momma there'd been accused of our merge right and that happens in something to european languages and in languages that have um sort of optional case marketing mhm it ten more likely to be optional you expect inanimate things to be objects more often than subjects in general right so this is a general tendencies across language where we're fussy her about marketing human or high agency objects than we are about [noise] low agency objects who are sort of actually slotted to that role mhm um but again i thought that was interesting to have to sort of language change picture going on the native <unk> distinguish stadium verbs which are basically adjectives action verbs and um what do they call the other ones [noise] perception verbs [noise] <unk> ah ah right now uh the last ones are um experience she'll or psychological mhm um again a very common breakdown in human psychology [noise] right um and even though you have the state of things that are like additives they can still be used attributed to leave without any fucking parking [noise] mhm [noise] he has a for a con layer his verb derivation are quite um restrained they're really only four of them um positive and it <unk> seemed to be restricted to <unk> i couldn't mm verify that there are some that definitely look <unk> but he also has um a note that these seldom if ever mean make or for someone to do something [noise] <unk> um <unk> which seems to exclude certainly high transmitted deserves [noise] um but then we have the right things or declare it from this yeah um [noise] and the positive encoded markers also uh cause uh those sorts of herbs can't be used in certain uh construction see discuss later in the syntax [noise] right [noise] has something that he calls his accidental <unk> she described as being sort of like a quote unquote paranoid passive [noise] that is that the results <unk> is almost always undesirable or culturally negative okay so uh afflicted by overcome by something unexpectedly happens in a bad way that sort of thing [noise] yeah that's just like <unk> like a very specific kind of passive [laughter] [noise] yeah we do <unk> i mean uh in <unk> in chinese people will say that uh <unk> bay is almost always negative right and that's always a vietnamese results so assertive as well mhm ah so it's not surprising to me it wouldn't be surprising to me to have a a language the parents uh passive but that's mostly negative people people claim that sort of about english but it's not really true so um and then these uh that's dentals have more complicated as tax in terms of marketing subject <unk> and all of that which is <unk> and finally up a potential for [noise] um [noise] which is kind of like be able to do something but there's lots of idiomatic um <unk> as well mhm [noise] er let's see what's next he thought carefully about the <unk> [noise] mhm which is you know a new obsession line [noise] um it appears to be a double marked that is both the <unk> and the lexical for our worked for a subject okay except that either mate drop the subject marking um apparently in free variation yeah [noise] i'm a little less natural i think but yeah um and then for fun he's got things that we would think of as um <unk> or um <unk> um [noise] our indicated without delivery so you have some the normal construction apparently for maybe or possibly um is a uh oh so you're a <unk> um and [noise] some things that i can't find it uh in the syntax section there's lots of stuff uh lots of detailed we're not going to go into a lot of thinking what into relative clauses and how those work mhm um i think it's a good example of you know just thinking things through [noise] um [noise] he talks about style and interesting ways [noise] um and then there's [noise] there's just [noise] wonderful suffix maybe a clinic knee and i [noise] which has lots of different functions and get plenty of love and attention mm in the <unk> in the syntax um it can either be the third person possessive suffix <unk> definite nest but not for human uh-huh [noise] it can be a verb or adjective like saying nominal <unk> in preference today dying <unk> slash infinite if worker [noise] um and then it has a bunch of uh uh it's used to mark possession for inanimate mostly um and finally it's used in budget medium adequate [noise] so that yeah i love that because that's the thing that you find the natural language is all the time you end up with some some little suffix or some little particle but does like these ten different things yeah and it it can take <unk> a long time to like puzzle out exactly what it does [noise] 'cause they're all different mhm um and one of the uses uh is you know kind of just preferred by the local school teachers [noise] [laughter] hi cara uh aside from it's used as a third person possessive topics that has three other important in fairy frequent functions open pregnancies [noise] far too frequent any opinion as many grammar school teachers with court deter need any chuck at needy deployed up and criticize their students overused or misuse of neat [laughter] [noise] ah okay so that's fun i enjoyed that [noise] um and he goes into descriptions of all of this including the nominal is fish and stuff which is fun and [noise] a little bit complicated [noise] um i was gonna say and then he's got his whole section describing these accidental groups and how things are are coped with um lots of idiomatic derivation so bike to the noun hi uh meaning light producers chuck <unk> which means blinded by a bright light <unk> um noodle means deep chocolate neutral means lost it see so and there's just a bunch of things which are fun [noise] um [noise] he has comparative throws adjective [noise] shocking there [noise] um unfortunately he got reasonably far in this and then the last few sections are lists which presumably he was going to expand out at some point um he knows or new in his mind a lot more of a language because there's some pretty substantial text available on the website as well mhm uh there was a local rhyme of two thousand nine which is huge yeah [noise] um there's a recipe for shrimp some shrimp dish [laughter] um uh he wrote a wedding ceremony and so there are various text and i think you participated in at least one race i possibly [noise] under about stuff where maybe it would be interesting for someone to go through those tax and also go through grammar and like reanalyze things and see if they can reach out and find the things that are not describe yeah that would be quite attacks though yeah it would be definitely it's you know well as much as any decide freeing of uh uh [noise] of a a a language would be but ah <unk> might be interesting to see someone that i don't have time for him [laughter] you have a child you to not have time [noise] yes um and so we both saw like the dictionary is great uh it's uh it has a big focus on telling you what terms are derived from each entry word and uh we both ah william i think we both saw immediately uh honey you right right so they're hilarious lead to dictionaries organized in the native sound system [noise] yeah so h. comes first age comes first aids way near the end uh-huh and and very soon you come to i need you which ah it has a combining phone hon you and there's just like so many different derivation that are listed you're <unk> not at heart regulating day that the the base i mean it gets so spirit mind conscience right right and uh but there's there's a new album side that's not at heart <unk> uh <unk> <unk> uh corrupt immoral <unk> determined and even like um uh let's see current honey you mindless so let's see <unk> can refer to chaos time before creation so you know he's this <unk> that's a particularly big example and there's many more that i'm not gonna lift here but uh [noise] uh for that particular word but uh he does do a lot of ah stuff and there's little bits of like con world <unk> end up in here like um <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> um we're in [noise] oh i don't even know how the order works fine up around like [laughter] it's a name for a certain type of animal <unk> do and he has like a forest hopper ali um the the king hyper ali and all this that are you know presumably different species of it and also i meant i i saw that he does have a word <unk> referring to uh the climate in <unk> uh <unk> look wins universe pain so [noise] uh we were going back and forth we're human i whether you considered this climate to be a part of that universe or whether that this was just you know i'm i'm on mars to look when but that's the interesting thing that you could uh yeah i i don't know i think it was more into <unk> but yeah the dictionary is huge i mean not all i mean there are plenty of injuries that are just you know yeah knocked meaning to scratch an itch but many of them have um <unk> and examples and explanations [noise] um yeah in in the grammar and not as much in the dictionary but more than the grammar he's really good about giving the source for [noise] for medical <unk> pets um see you know where things are derived from which is fun and david even made special mentioned it that [noise] [noise] mm [noise] um so that's a good thing to do even if only to yourself oh there's a supplement to the dictionary right he he would add words within merged <unk> periodically yeah yeah okay interesting well at least it's fun to create colloquial two or three [noise] various lizard species at a few mammals capable of flights that also seeing or have an honorable cry [noise] super type thing you know as we said earlier is two other languages um not describes terribly well [noise] um [noise] that he's got were [noise] um which is very preliminary um but as i said there's a link to the sound changes document which is [noise] ah <unk> <unk> um and then probably which has a fairly substantial worthless and uh start of the ground but ah right but but not much else [noise] i hope i mean this is uh uh tripod site i hope that it is being preserves somewhere because he said [noise] went away because he's not tending it any more [noise] i wonder if um let's see it's hard to say whether tripod will stay forever i'm sure i'm sure uh it can be in our car dot org ah it's probably in the way back machine somewhere uh i wonder if uh <unk> maybe we can think about the prom [noise] um but uh yeah yeah <unk> i think the best fun for cautious either to look at his post about it um um archives of uh come like mailing list or to look at his [noise] texts a little more closely we've not given everything of the flavor of the language right uh which is which is pretty substantial pretty large alumnus project yeah oh good yeah [noise] <unk> <unk> <unk> and neuter <unk> uncouth men tough guys <unk> no good mix [laughter] [noise] that's nice yeah like no good nicks george show have anything to save up the number system uh there's not really much yeah kind of the the straight up boring chinese style system there's an interesting thing of like uh what in the thousands the uh let me find the numbers again real quick i think in the so the word for which one okay for his car and it gets um l. inserted into it when it's it's combined in the thousands [noise] uh yeah and uh that's that just seems to be like a random irregularity uh influenced by another number possibly um and then uh the only thing is um <unk> native terms up to uh a billion and truly could really couldn't tell you in are loan words from <unk> so yeah there's not really that much interesting about it other than other than that [laughter] um [laughter] but he owns this as the <unk> only children and bankers <unk> yes yes [laughter] yeah i'm i'm a uh uh he he talks about they basically use people basically beyond that just use something equivalent to scientific know crashing right so and uh oh here's another used to <unk> it's too too um distributive so messed up the mess out one by one right et cetera et cetera [noise] makes a mess uh and then it becomes mess sound okay that's an option yesterday partial and [noise] yeah it it <unk> interestingly the ordinary prefix yeah actually it was like oh and this is apparently from <unk> <unk> to divide so it's interesting that he decided to okay you got a uh a particular etymology so always fun they're trying to figure out where things <unk> to to to um come up with uh where things come from [noise] um and he's got a whole like nice lifted introductions which for some reason is on the same page as the numbers oh he said oh pizza yeah so that's another it's another one of the um the the places where he takes uh uh some native room area and stuff it's like this is the traditional grammer for this language the in the the traditional grammar of uh oh gosh um basically groups together <unk> particles what's it called uh like bound morphine as what your calls captured pieces and a bunch of things like introductions and conjunctions and proposition as as uh lucia pieces are free pieces oh it's it's <unk> <unk> and then the captured is uh <unk> um uh so he just decided to introduce that and he's talking about mainly the quote unquote free pieces [noise] sure [noise] which is like [noise] particles but also things that we wouldn't really call the sound like particles so horrible it hard to close the dumping ground for everything we don't have a better a name for [laughter] see for the ancient greek student i mean they had to work for a particle but mostly they just called anything that they couldn't figure it out an ad for [laughter] really yeah okay that works yeah [noise] um [noise] yeah [noise] i didn't know that we have too much else to say about cost [noise] no not really it's a fun little language [noise] uh although i say <unk> larger dictionary than most people manage [noise] uh yeah it's has it has a good dictionary i don't know how like how many <unk> and there's a lot [laughter] yeah it's it's you kinda <unk> pretty long time so yeah yeah and <unk> is like the third from the <unk> yeah the both of them left [noise] no it's the oh the the last few work uh uh <unk> dot org okay [noise] so [noise] this is <unk> he has a word for aspect that's very important [noise] what's that aspect you yeah [laughter] it's just it's <unk> but <unk> instead of sweet [noise] oh it's a classic of the fifties just to embed you know hard boiled eggs in random fits into uh ate meat flavored <unk> oh that's right right my wife makes an ass break out of uh <unk> yeah oh sure sure yeah i just never [noise] i'm just i knew i knew that term because i looked it up but we just <unk> i just like that he needed a word for <unk> that just makes me happy [laughter] yeah that's fun 'cause it's not <unk> it's not um [noise] that's not a food that's currently in high protein [noise] in this culture [laughter] any cookbook from the fifties and there's tomato aspect this to me that aspect that any more [noise] that's that's interesting okay so anyway i i think that's all we <unk> yep kosh whatever uh so thank you offer listening william do you have any other random notes to add nope okay so that <unk> ah we will have links to uh david peterson's smiley post and to um the the website for cash ah hopefully it will still be around uh by the time people listen to this you know there could be people from years in the future listening to this project so right i have to keep that in mind but uh you guys go and check it out definitely there is a lot of material to go through if you want to really get to know this language and the other languages that he is and the other random bits of stuff that he has on the <unk> like you know like [noise] a bunch of recipes yeah i think i think [noise] random average come minor is probably going to find just browsing the dictionary interested in you [noise] yes yes [noise] you know it's uh very fun thing to do too [noise] <unk> [noise] where he went certain words [noise] because of you know <unk> aspect of the dictionary [noise] all right [noise] so [noise] with all of that i'm going to say thank you [noise] fan happy <unk> on my [noise] thank you for listening to <unk> you could find our archives in sherman oaks fat <unk> dot com [noise] we could support the show on patron ask patriotic dot com slash <unk> you can also follow us on baseball quieter brutal plus and on top of her now all of those you just find online or in our web space is provided by the language creation society are steamed music is by no device on our news site was designed by beyond for richer [noise]

Tags

  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. conlang
  4. Kash
  5. language
  6. linguistics

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 117 Kash (last edited 2017-09-10 03:45:21 by TranscriBot)