Conlangery #121: Trigedasleng

Conlangery #121: Trigedasleng

Published: Mon, 04 Jul 2016 04:00:25 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 [noise] <unk> <unk> [noise] [noise] well computer <unk> languages and the people create them i'm george carlin with me down the road wages will you manage and over in california we have david peterson [noise] my old friend i mean george quarterly [laughter] no i have never done anything wrong right [noise] so [noise] as as some may or may not know i have a you to channel where i do you two videos now they're poor quality because i don't know anything about recording videos at all and i don't care to learn anything about it either um so they keep on being a poor quality deal with it anyway so i did one video on um add positions because i got a terrible question on templar uh was uh something like how many propositions you needed a language uh i worked with that um and uh and i george i assume unless it was william re belong to this episode uh where i said you know new video at came from a question somebody asked any added to comment just the beginning of what you should be thinking about for <unk> positions case and lock it expressions thank you thank you for that i could recommend [laughter] you know i mean i said as much into video i did right right but uh yeah i got my eye on your quarterly [laughter] i don't think it was me no i don't <unk> william <unk> even at you as adamant on the uh on the toddler i don't think so worrying about that later anyway [laughter] yeah right oh but first uh can congratulations on uh on on coming this far with the whole fatherhood thing [laughter] yeah yeah um it's you to actually graduations and being more or less coherent with the lack of sleep you must both be dealing with yeah oh no i get i get plenty of sleep it's just between the hours of five and twelve [laughter] yes [laughter] oh that's good anyway uh six months is okay six months is okay you at four mhm uh-huh jeeze over five now okay okay so you're closer than i thought alright six months is pretty good mhm i think if i'm looking back three three to four months with the worst oh yeah yeah it was it uh it got bad for a while she's starting to eat solid food now yeah so yeah that's good no that was a big difference she loves her oatmeal hates hates zucchini peas uh what was the other one we tried green beans i think and they're fresh too just ah she's tolerated the carrots [laughter] uh uh our daughter loves oatmeal to the baby oatmeal yeah yeah anyway i know maybe talk let's [laughter] we we can we can uh save that another [laughter] i don't know where it's too discussions uh they're developing language skills in the future <unk> yes yes <unk> actually i will say something really quick aaron had uh uh martin within sight so <unk> <unk> <unk> she says that all the time and we figured that the recent there's university with being the word for mother is not because there is anything special about it is because it's the first word the children are saying and mothers think that they're calling for them right but i think that's actually the theory that the <unk> the first syllable so parents just say okay there was er [laughter] to me that's me self obsession of parents okay [laughter] uh so anyway um we did not come to talk about babies uh um what is your baby babbling already [noise] oh yeah oh okay i'll hurry is not quite babbling yet but anyway uh just uh sorry another little language but i hear that's more common with language a babysitter raised bilingual <unk> oh <unk> they bible later yeah um in fact a lot of the language goals come later but then of course ultimately they're uh they're the better for it they they do they do catch up pretty quick though yeah yeah um okay so moving along [laughter] we brought david on yet another time to talk about getting another one of his language is uh today we're going to talk about three <unk> three assign <unk> oh yeah i get the stress on that or is it always initial <unk> no it's basically the stress is where you think it would be if it were an english word most of the time most time most of the time that you know very quickly you david created <unk> for um for a t._v. show called the one hundred which i just found out today is very very very loosely based on a young adult book series [noise] with a book wasn't written right yeah yeah yeah look wasn't britain yet when they did the tv [noise] yeah but this is the funny thing is it's easier to sell stuff in hollywood that is uh that isn't adaptation than it is for an original idea and so all they had was i think a sample chapter and they just said look it's sampled chapter this this show it's going to be about you know the book is going to be about this uh it's going to teach her teens and space and they said well as long as we say it's based on something go for it [laughter] so maybe that's the reason why um you know i look at the <unk> the books and not just on what you <unk> see okay this has like almost nothing to do with what i watched on in the in the sears yeah no not at all it's yeah it's kind of funny that way [laughter] but anyway um the idea is in the in the t._v. show this takes the place a hundred years in the future hundred and fifty a hundred and fifty okay so uh but it's a hundred years after uh nuclear <unk> holocaust like a ninety seven years after right yes um and <unk> is spoken by a a group of uh people who are um who uh had basically our survivors the descendants of survivors that live on the surface and there's uh you know another group that's up in space that were that the series mostly focus was on and then another group that and and you know they send some teenagers down to the planet the sea of earth is having trouble again and then there's another group that's stuck inside a barn bunker in mount whether uh virginia so um that's the basics uh before we actually get into uh i want to be able to talk to you about a little bit of more about that background but uh when we were talking before the show you said there <unk> there was something interesting i know we've gone over how people get hired to do uh <unk> for t._v. but you said there was something interesting about what happened this time but you'd like to sure yeah so i was working on a show on the c._w. cold star crossed um at the same time that the one hundred head it's first season come out uh so i wasn't working on the show during season one um and presumably would never have but ah in between seasons one into um i was asked to to join the the show and it was a bizarre series of conversations where i got the distinct impression that um the people who are talking to me the ones who are in charge of the show did not actually think of the idea to hire me and didn't actually know why i was hired which was very peculiar since it was their show um i found out later that the reason that i was hired with that there's a guy named mark pit of with uh who's in charge of all of programming c._w. he basically told them or suggested to them that it would be a good idea if they're <unk> a different language and that they they should hire me and so they did um but then they then when they were coming to me they were basically asking me all right how can this possibly work [laughter] because if you watched the first season to the show there are a few <unk> towards the end and they all speak perfect english right so yeah i we kinda had to figure that out between seasons wanting to and try to figure out alright how can we get a new language and how can we possibly justify it and uh and i i did my best that's really interesting to me that someone up in the station is like this is important enough that we should keep finding work for this guy i mean obviously that's good for you but it's interesting that his thought was well you know if we can't used to come over here on the show that we just cancelled maybe we should put in some what else uh that is one option but another option is that he didn't even know [laughter] i was working on another show and the c. w. okay you know maybe you just watch game of thrown in liked it [laughter] it's a possibility i don't know i've never i never discussed it with them um but uh uh that that is also one option as well um i thought well that was nice but um but yeah no i i really do wish i could have been there during season one i think things could have been i i as perfect as i could have made them you know given uh the <unk> nature of the show um but uh since then we just kind of been you know uh plugging along doing our best right so what justification then did you come out like how did you decide that it would work [noise] work in a manner of speaking so um [laughter] this is the best i could do first of all the the so the reason they said a hundred and fifty is that the the the big nuclear war is supposed to happen like fifty or so years from now um so that's that's when kind of like the timeline start to that one hundred years start so then they're all up in space apparently people survive on the ground um which you know i'm not a hundred percent sure how i'm not really a big science guy so i don't quite get a how people survived not in a bunker and be white people in a bunker can't survive now if they leave the bunker oh well okay let's let's just say there is some some really terrible science in in the show but from my perspective but you know so you'd have to hold your nose a little bit of uh at the <unk> in my opinion but okay so painting anyway so let's see but but saying that people did survive yeah what i assumed is that um uh society as as we know it nevertheless collapse i mean there's no more government there's no more institutions at all [noise] yeah there's just a kind of a bunch of ah broken down um old buildings and then there's gotta be a period and and this is again where my science for the little shaky where i'm not sure myself there's gotta be a period where people can't really go outside for a while um yeah i mean [laughter] i don't know if that's five years ten years fifty years i have no idea how long that period as but i mean you know it'd be one thing if there was just like you know um you know ah society was destroyed but there are some people that survived and they can nevertheless go outside and work together to to to make things right again um uh another one if there's a lotta times where people are having to really stay out of sight and and hopefully breeds some reasonable air plus <unk> uh i assume you also got people dying left and right afterwards even if they didn't die from the blast um life expectancy has gotta be plummeting here yeah radiation poisoning all sorts of um environmental habits yeah starvation yeah starvation yeah um and then just sickness and illness so um so what i figured as this uh if people have survived this long there has to have been um some sort of a group that survived it's not just going to be like oh there were just a random pockets of people literally everywhere that survive they'd be more like there was one group that was very successful in getting people uh what they need in order to survive for as long as possible um and they basically banded together so i invented a fiction that's never been formalized in the show but that basically i just i i said to the writers here's an idea i haven't we kind of went with it i don't know if it'll ever appear in the show that whenever this group was that there was one group that was more successful than the others um they decided that it was kind of uh you know i live and let die scenario and so they wanted to invent a way to be able to tell right off the bat if ah basically basically people were friends or not if they're a part of the in group or not and so they invented a code um and like not a language but a code where they just started a changing out words really common words um and so uh that they would be able to very easily identify if somebody knew it or somebody didn't um and so some of the was it was similar to sort of uh seems can't and that way right yeah yeah so and like some of this was with low <unk> and then another one um because uh i was actually had if i was asked to do this or <unk> or if i i came up with the idea to do this so that there would be no similarity to um to uh common english <unk> base creoles uh one of the ideas was to get rid of the pronoun me so this wasn't a natural evolution that that's i and all positions [noise] it was a conscious choice so that because it's something that is really easy to do if you're thinking about to just say i and all grammatical instances but it's something that a native english speaker would never ever ever ever do not even just by accident um so it's the type of thing where ah if you knew about it you could do it and you could do it pretty regularly but if you didn't know about it it would be really easy to spot the person who's not a part of the <unk> so that was my fiction that there is this group that came up with this thing and um and you know it <unk> it had kind of a a limited vocabulary that people started using ah the next part was that i ice ice theorized that there would be more generations in this one hundred years than there would be in say a one hundred years from now with society maintains itself more or less the way it's been doing because um uh life expectancy is shorter and a lot of especially the older people are going to be dying out a lot earlier um just due to the various ah environmental factors and so the idea is that the the english itself is going to be evolving a little bit faster because um it's basically more younger people more innovations indian uh innovation stick around water 'cause there aren't enough people to kind of like you know beat them out of of the younger crowd so there was some phone logical evolution and also some of that for the logical evolution triggered morphological evolution because i got rid of word final um confident clusters uh and those are super important when it comes to things like <unk> intense right um and so then that triggered some other uh more of a lot of uh morphological changes uh syntax is mostly the same and also there is just a lot of innovation i think ah once people got used to the code ah there are certain things that they just liked and so they came up with new words and stuff so that was my justification for how you could get something that is more or less basically uh very similar to modern english colloquial english it's still very very different and has some words that are radically different because there was no way we could do it if all the words were the same that wouldn't be different enough it had to be just different enough and that was my justification right now i'm just moving off on that you do see in the series uh maybe that this this idea that this was originally a code to identify the in group sort of survives on uh influences things because like the very first <unk> when you hear is one of the a hundred people from space who landed having to practice speaking <unk> in order to like full people right right um so i guess it's still being used in that way but the warrior class in that society still maintains english [laughter] [noise] yeah and then like everybody's a warrior [laughter] right [laughter] yeah it's uh yeah i know and that was that was the i'm sorry that was the one thing i miss the other fiction is that i said the warriors had to maintain their fluency in english so that they could still understand everybody in mount weather um who before they were all these people that came from the sky people him out whether we're they're big antagonist um you know they they had to trade with them because they've got resources and stuff um but also they capture the ground or isn't doing experiments on 'em and do awful things to them so it it paid to be able to still understand them um but at the same time it's not like they were teaching the ground or is there anything or sharing any of their major cultural advancements so that was a that was another part of the fiction uh it's just that so many people i mean so many <unk> speak english [noise] it's it's tough it would be nicer if most of them are just <unk> only but yeah you can only do so much and then of course in this and then the other thing is that they have a great big city which we see in season three [noise] um and so that that um it taxes <unk> a little bit [noise] um because they do have some sort of society um they could even have schools and things like that but um [noise] of course there's also no motivation for them to totally switch over to english i guess if they if they prefer to get a <unk> i imagine that if like you know at some point in time in the future everybody gets together in the sky forgets to go they all get together it um <unk> it'll actually just all melt back in english but just in hold overs and then there was just the old people like doing you know <unk> yeah theatre and preservation societies and revivals society [laughter] yeah and then you know fifty years it'll all be gone [noise] [noise] so that's interesting so uh now i know why it was forever until you actually heard any <unk> or something i never realized that before and then now you you tell me that you were hired him in the second season i'm like oh okay this isn't that why you know it's not until <unk> a little bit into the second season that we started hearing this this language at least you didn't have to read caught anything that's some director's assistant came up with a nose for the moment that is true yeah and actually helps that um i mean there's <unk> language based entirely on english because i i think that um just intuitively uh you know the writers get it it's like you can't just make stuff up like they they can try to make stuff up actually but they're they're not just making up random strings they're using english you know and so sometimes they come up with something good sometimes uh not so much um but you know at least they kind of know how to go about [noise] which is which is nice actually jew so [noise] right it's based on english some of the actors for the two seasons that i watch the show really it does it it's it's a similarity to english is pretty straining to pick up sometimes <unk> um our people playing it up on purpose are people do people know the english source for the dialogue you're giving them or are they looking at this like they might look at those rocky which is just like here's some foreign stuff i have to mouth that was actually really interesting as well and it's been fascinating for me um 'cause both just actors and also writers um some people really get it and some of them don't ah and it's like like uh for example um uh nick <unk> last last season season too he was the uh the the script a coordinator like he got it like you just look at it and it was like oh this is basically english i'm like yeah [laughter] and so like he totally got it but then others would look at it and like yeah they would look at it like it was death rocky something totally out of this world one um one decision that may have led to that was how to ride it um i asked uh i asked them at the very beginning i said you know i can write this in one or two ways i can write this using english words everywhere possible and where it isn't you know maybe using um no apostrophe s. and stuff so like no i. n. g. but you can put like a little i in apostrophe or things like that or or you know change something that's a change along or <unk> what's to to an a. because it <unk> it sounds like that i said i can do that so that at all the actors to look at it and see how it's english or i can come up with a very uh regular romantic nation system uh that might obscure the english but where everything all the characters will be pronounce the same and i said for a project like this i can see doing it either way and so i i just threw it over to the writers i said what do you think what do you think would be best um and they decided on the room and his <unk> system ah because they said they thought it would make it appear more um foreign to the actors and they were right but not for all of them only for some of them um and so yeah some of them really go after it like this is some far out you know crazy language that they've never heard of and like and it surprised to them if they come across them and say oh hey that sounds like an english where we're [laughter] whereas you know others are looking and say okay this is just basically kind of uh a little fanatic he way to just do some modern colloquial <unk> english and they deliver it like that um and i honestly i i have not been able to figure out uh what the differences that is you know who is going to take to it that way and who isn't um but it's very interesting uh it's a it's a little it's a little baffling to me how like just when you hear it cause i pronounce all this stuff on the m._p. threes had just when you hear it you don't hear the english in it but some people don't know when i when i uh i'm watching it you know i know offhand already that this is this is future english of a smart but you know i can pick up a lot of words but i can't pick up everything there's always things that are mysterious to me so [noise] so i can see how it can go either way depending on how you're thinking about it um [noise] one from <unk> i was just a from a fan perspective i wonder if people would take to it as much if it were in fact you know bike <unk> spelled approximately like english cause i know people get tattoos and this language yeah and i wonder if some of the appeal it would be lessened if it looks more like english that's an interesting question i have to think you'd be right i think so it might they might look at it and say well it's not a language is just english [laughter] you know basically true i mean it's i i've always said this has gotta be the easiest language for an english speaker to learn on the world and you know in the entire world if uh if you count it as a separate language um i think it's a kind of as i don't know it's it's on the border yeah yeah uh i don't know it's not it's not totally intelligent will to me yeah yeah um but ah before we get into more technical things i've had one question that's been sort of uh gnawing on my brain where so <unk> the the people who's speak <unk> where they live we know we live they live sort of northern virginia d._c. area yeah um did you when you were making the language did you do any thinking about research about like what's the local dialect where this show is taking place and like you know extrapolate him from that at all [noise] yes i did unfortunately um all of the speakers on the show i mean <unk> most of them are canadian and then some of them or you know australian uh or or british like the the natives uh try to get a science speakers and so like first of all like when they speak english i mean they're not [laughter] and when the virginia accent that don't sound like virginia not at all not at all i mean you could i don't know it's a hundred and fifty years later so maybe it changed but um i i tried i tried my best to uh when it when it came to the sound changes to reflect a the virginia ah the virginian accent and i i use some virginia flying there um and ah but it doesn't come up a lot yeah like like i don't think i've even had to look but i'm not a hundred percent sure that i've actually ever gotten to to use the word that and that has the the oil sound in it you know like oh i l um which comes out of you know it's all in in <unk> yeah oh yeah so i haven't got a chance to see that one yet but um i'm waiting for it in case [laughter] where did i did see like the only thing i ever saw was that you apparently have a descendent of y'all in oh yea system but that's that's a pretty simple thing and that's something that's spreading out from the south so yeah and and also there was something else i i really wanted to do but [noise] um i got a little push back from in the beginning 'cause when i created my first version of <unk> things or to the writers they like thought it was really cool but there was like there's no way it's way too different at forty two different you have to make it less different than that which says low bummed out about um but uh one of the things i ended up changing um was i kept um the eyes val which i really don't believe in i think you're right on i think it on uh i think yeah i mean and it and there's there's plenty of people who <unk> who knows and and yeah it's just <unk> yeah it's it's super comment and so ah you'll actually noticed in in some of my vocabulary um actually gotten rid of it in certain places but like i had to keep it with uh with like 'cause that was one of the first things that they they saw 'cause it was <unk> uh l._a. kay uh change back in like a man [laughter] um but uh but you know i got away with it elsewhere so like nat from night and ah you know for a night night blood is comes from night leader which is you know not played uh um so they don't do that in a couple of places been out everywhere it should've been everywhere mm okay well yeah the that that's that's [noise] i guess a little bit of kahn laying by committee um yeah [laughter] oh [laughter] oh yeah always reality when you're doing art for something else [noise] yeah yeah no matter what is so let's um let's actually move along and then and talk a little bit more about sort of interesting grammatical stuff um william wrote this question down but i'm going to say so there's one thing that you did is that you took existing what we call phrase verbs in english [noise] like sit down uh shut up uh all those things where you have like this political that's like <unk> that's like a part of the verb but it's a separate word and you like system ties that into these verbal satellites and um [noise] william you said there's that there's seems to be interesting things about testing that much i've just ethics so my question maybe you could um talk through your thought process there um about you know oh yeah right so uh this is this is one thing i was really excited about because um you know i've always thought about like if i were to if i were doing well i've i've had a number of of creole projects that i've done but specifically i've always been i've i've thought previously about future english and a lot of the things i see you know focus on other areas and i'm like this is this is the most interesting thing that we do right now [laughter] and not only that the the the the means and stuff it's like the the propositions are becoming more tied to the verbs than anything else you know where it's not like they even mean anything it's just that you have to you have to when you're <unk> you have to learn to <unk> with the proposition um and so i thought that would be really cool and so i <unk> i came up let's see what am i got one two three four five six seven eight um eight of them one of his little marginal you could call it a a cold like an adverb but uh but uh i got eight of them and they come from the ah proposition ah out down in off up through and way um i don't know why i got rid of on that there was a reason i did and so i mean on on still survive in like a proposition on uh uh but um but on never made it as as one of these satellites so if it ah if it feel slighted i apologize on um but uh i figured that the way that it would become systematic is um if you if you really lost the connection between what these propositions <unk> started out as you know actual functional propositions [noise] when you might start to do is and just see patterns with how they work with the birds and so that's what happened basically up became the generic one so um and this was actually of all things inspired by [laughter] cool hand luke <unk> nope oh god it's an amazing movie amazingly i really recommend it's got uh paul newman it [noise] anyway so yeah paul newman gets arrested and he goes to this prison and um at this prison they have this little dialect till thing where uh any time that uh a prisoner is asking to do something that is not <unk> <unk> that's like out of the ordinary they have to ask their boss and the way they do it like in the guy wants to smoke cigarettes and smoking are up your boss or you know uh you know walking out here a boss or or something like that where uh but most of the time the generic one is up or anything that you're doing it's like up you know and so i thought oh yeah yeah that makes sense and so yeah uh just became the generic for transit of birds you're doing something you're doing it up and then um oh round and round there should add that to that list round became to the um the generic in transit of one coming from something like messing around fooling around huh um and so that those became like the two main ones where it's like these are the generic default and then the rest have you know credits like either they're tied directly to the old like seems that come from english or they have specific semantic content like um in is more um experiential based i guess most time when you seen <unk> when you see in it has to do with something where there's an experience over there [noise] um [noise] uh you know ways motion out uh through is kind of like um i don't even know how to describe that [noise] but [noise] but it's like almost like uh other literally or metaphorical early um like pushing through something that's fine with the <unk> or did it seems to be like i know what survive is uh kicks kicked right yeah kick through so that's that's sort of like you you you have to push you have to you have to get through the situation right so yeah it makes sense to me yeah yeah it's it's just i should have a better technical explanation for right right yeah and so um you know like you know down the obvious directional things like that uh clean was the one that i came up with where it's not really a proposition to that was just like uh absolutely totally completely um so a lot of these things have a pair where it'll be the ordinary one is up and then you have and you can also use clean and it means to do that totally and completely and fully um the thing that i guess was a little um uh maybe innovative and perhaps questionable on my part was having these things come regularly after the object [noise] even if the object is bigger than a pronoun um sometimes it sounds a little off to my english ear uh they're definitely is heavy shift so if the object gets big enough um you do have verb satellite and then the rest of the object but for an ordinary size object even if it's an n. p. easily put the um the satellite uh after the object and sometimes it sounds a little jar into an english speaker thing mm okay so you talked about <unk> are there any or did you spend time worrying about sort of aspects and felicity implications of these final elements clean obviously has one yeah [noise] um [noise] not uh specifically i mean again i'm guided by my english intuition to right where you know it's like this this makes sense to my english air um does it work that way so um <unk> he was important um to lift city that's something where you i think you'd have to look at it in analyze it and see if it was i don't have a sense for just off the bat um but um i remember a trance too many came because i was i was actually thinking of took this thing where it's <unk> mark and it just seemed like the system set for that right it it was like made for that i know i know um took person does this do other uh i'm trying to think our other uh english creoles um did they overly are trained to many in the same way or similarly set a preoccupation of creoles or just happens [noise] i think it just happens to be took they seem to <unk> stinking if i was trying to think of a jamaican <unk> i don't think does it hey okay here's been korea was an english base but i don't think it does that either right um but this is something that i can actually check not now but later i will be interesting yeah okay just curious yeah yeah okay that's [laughter] smart [laughter] someone else oh no no that's that that is a really interesting i kind of wonder if some of the actors thought of it as a creole and tried to think of other creoles are familiar with 'cause like the very first lawn you hear what she says uh i like uh octavia she's like i like uh octavia it's like she's trying to do a jamaican how old are you in [noise] clear [noise] not [noise] [noise] well she <unk> ah that was marie <unk> she actually was like she didn't get it at all [laughter] any like she didn't understand why we were doing it and she was looking at like but these are these are like english where it's money when you write them like that and so i actually for that very first sign i did um i did like the little uh english um you know fake uh writing uh for her because she needed that um but uh that was just the beginning eventually she got it now i think she's pretty she's pretty good at it um doesn't need help any more but uh but after that first sign she just she really couldn't wrap her head around and it was a very bizarre idea to her so that's that reason uh i know that one of the writers was was talking about i guess ah she was familiar with haitian creole and so was bringing it up so i think a lot of people make that connection but um [noise] i think that they they i think that they might not if it were written uh just with english care of the with the english words and spelling conventions um i think that part of it is the is the roman addition system that does that yeah it it definitely adds something to it and you know <unk> add something <unk> skating partly yeah and now even though it's not even ever used in the show because as far as we know the the <unk> crew doesn't right <unk> it would make sense that they might have lost the ability to right oh by the way it is used in the show once i was totally blown away and kind of dismayed by it [laughter] oh really <unk> somebody wrote it okay so there's this scene in season three where they have a map and they're talking about going to wipe out some ground or village and on the map so this is the the sky people right this isn't the ground or is using it this is the sky people on the board is written tree crew the way that we write it for the roman <unk> system oh and i was like no no no consulted you on that one [laughter] english speakers they just put it written three crew i mean come on [laughter] yeah [laughter] i mean even in subtitles <unk> you know it's uh i think it's like off and on sometimes they ride it with you or <unk> or and sometimes they write out tree crew in english yeah oh also apparently i heard somewhere in this in the closed caption um so that just in a closed caption they called a trigger slang ground or creole right uh yeah yeah i watch with subtitles on that all the time and yet that early on they called at ground or creole uh times yeah um i've i've only seen the first two seasons so i haven't seen you know she's in <unk> i don't know if there's differences there but yeah <unk> pretty good allow him moving uh getting back to grammar i really wanted to ask you about this there's um this day like suffix or yeah yeah i have i i was looking through your your templar ah responses <unk> by the way uh i don't think there's any documentation for this language other than people asking are you david and uh this other <unk> uh sky sky get a slim oh they do they gotta they gotta they gotta fan website treated the same god info oh okay so there there is more they're okay yeah but i was just going through your your color responses and trying to figure out what the what is this day it seems like it has several different uses could you explain a little bit about it no [laughter] no [laughter] i somebody it's funny somebody recently asked me about this onto under their asked me how it works and oh my god it's just like i know when i should use it i know when i shouldn't it's it's kinda like it's like i have native intuition for this language now then you don't even know why why why you put this where where it goes it's like it felt like you belong there it's it's i mean the simple explanation is that it is a replacement for the uh um obviously it's animal logically comes from there right so you know tree there would be <unk> um but it doesn't get used in precisely the same way that ah gets used in english it can be used presentation only but often not it's most of the it's it's best most <unk> typically usage is referring to something that is actually visible oh you know so like you know and just the way you think about using it in english you know like um <unk> and looking all things around these of course they don't have words for any of this stuff and i worked for desk [laughter] or anything but like uh air let's let's see what the first now and i come to is uh shoo ah you know so you know you know take 'em to the vet out uh so like ah remove fur or get rid of those those shoes you know um but it's like you referring to something that's in immediately in in reference but it's not like like those shoes it's almost like you know uh it's it's not like you're pointing to them that they're you'd use you know those are are like you know you know <unk> or a day um it's just like a light way of doing it i guess um but you can also use it to just mean uh so it wouldn't be like if you're if you're using excessively it wouldn't be like your translated as this are these are those every single time you'd be translating and is that because that's where it makes sense um but uh they moved from metaphorical easter that it it can refer to things not just an immediate view but like things that somebody who's talking with you should know about um so kind of like the um <unk> but then sometimes it's not used where where are you we we where we would use the <unk> this makes sense to me though because you know if you're talking about is translating is uh so uh definite article especially when you go from language language definite articles go do our president in different places and even you know the english <unk> article you know us as <unk> as being the speakers camp probably can't really in depth explain how it's used without doing a lot of extra now since i know yeah the <unk> i know so i have a lot of chinese friend's from china and china has no definite articles at all chinese and so they make lots of mistakes with the <unk> either omitting it or using it where it's inappropriate and i can't explain to them why you should or shouldn't use uh there i just know that they wrote it wrong and i have to correct it when i'm you know editing papers for them yeah and you know the worst thing is like they used to having the articles they don't even work the same way in the same language i think about you know british people saying how they go to university and how awful that sounds [laughter] and uh [noise] i'm trying to remember within the last few months i've read somewhere how in english and in a few other northern european languages <unk> over the last hundred years the article continues to spread out and take over more functions [laughter] some race so again my my standard ruled that glamorous born hungry um could apply even too old bits of grammar they'll just keep taking it as long as they can uh like that i liked that expression that's good yeah that's interesting you know first first i mean there are some languages that are very sensitive to um determine ers on whether or not something is actually visible or not um but i guess yours first too not just uh uh what uh the functional people called recover <unk> information stuff that's expected to be known by both the speaker and the listener and another one is david you speak spanish too so i don't know how different it is between english and spanish how the <unk> [laughter] it's ah alone learning learning curve uh yeah and i learned german too like you know you can use a definite article where people's names in german [laughter] what are they doing man and an italian but that has uh <unk> it's kind of marked you can yeah you just in spanish you can only do that if it if there's a title in front right no you couldn't do that you wouldn't like definitely not the way it happens in german right [laughter] um but speaking about that did do you have things that are awesome our shores from languages other than english [noise] this is a tough one um because i don't know the area very well and um and it's like <unk> i i so that's far really no um i mean one thing is i don't know the area too [noise] it's an open question in this environment where everybody like most people are dead um you know what are the odds of a non english language surviving well enough that it would influence this kind of a future english i just don't know um [noise] yeah it's kind of iffy it's hard to say yeah i i i can understand how that is hard to say i would say like i don't know much about virginia specifically i think most places in the u._s. you would be safe with throwing a little bit of spanish in there but otherwise you'd have to know a lot more about this what immigrant and and indigenous communities are there and probably indigenous language is unfortunately would be gone anyway yeah um and only like very large immigrant communities which is why i say spanish would probably be safe yeah and probably though just with the lexical just lexical items right right no no no grammar is gonna be transferred over 'cause yeah most of those people would be speaking english anyway time of the the bomb i'm hungry if it briefly experiencing a sense of loss for world without <unk> [laughter] oh man uh we we keep getting questions about that like you know do do <unk> have they have donuts do they have pizza and like you know i don't know i [noise] it it seems like you need a lot of equipment to make a donut yeah need oil fryer where they're getting that [laughter] you know it's probably probably most stuff you're not enjoying anymore all of our all of our costco rack of spices all gone [laughter] lots of stuff that needs imported would would definitely be not there yeah yeah they say that needs imported you fit in no i'm i'm you were just talking about spices and i'm not you're not asking you a dramatic a question you sit needs imported [laughter] oh needs imported yes i do [laughter] right right i mean you're you're west virginia yeah alien virginia so i don't know if that effects but i'll keep that in my [laughter] [noise] yeah i thought that was a feature further north but i don't i don't know i don't know i could be affected by wisconsin or it could just be hired through you that is that uh wisconsin that's not a wisconsin thing then it it must be ah well keep in mind when you're talking about west virginia like if you look at dialect maps there's there's most people and uh break it down in a way that there's like a dialect boundary that goes straight through west virginia so fits there's <unk> a lot of transitional things going on there a vibrant melting pot of dialect [laughter] yeah i'm trying to think of any other deep questions about <unk> nothing is coming to mind at the moment although surely i will remember something later ah oh well i i suppose something that is worth mentioning is the fact that at least from my perspective purr purr what's the word i want the perspective or perception i think it's perspective yeah no perspective that is the word i want okay from my perspective <unk> is foreign away my most popular online [noise] really oh yeah i do it's rocky can't touch it uh yeah i i can see that just from ah following your toddler because that's the thing that you are always getting asks about now yeah and i answer like ten percent of them yeah yeah i mean not really ah this is the i don't see you talking to people much about those rocky we're veering anymore it's all <unk> yeah i mean no certainly certainly <unk> or in your in second third place that are uh who knows which order not as much as i know yeah i mean but you still get some people who want their names in ah the defiance like right now well no that's fine you know i i'm the only one that's got the font so i mean and you know it's it's gonna look different that's fine but that people are asked for their names intriguing to <unk> oh my goodness [laughter] [noise] i think this is part of the i mean yeah for some people if they're not accustomed to hearing people speak varieties of english other than their own it's got to come off as a foreign language utterly rather than a very into english [laughter] you know and i mean somebody this is just i i won't say the name but somebody asked you know can you might even treated as flying you know this is it can you tell me how it's spelled also can you tell me how it's pronounced [laughter] shut the same way but god i <unk> maybe a little bit of adaptation maybe but uh there's something going on there i just don't understand so ah but you know if people are [noise] the fans of the show must be very dedicated 'cause surely there are many many more people watching game of friends that are watching it a hundred absolutely no there i mean buy an order of magnitude i i'm certain but it's you know like the <unk> because so many people are watching a game of throws a percentage of people that are interested in languages super super small um but not only that the people that are interested in the language they're still um there's still a continuing there most people are interested enough that they will say oh that's cool how do you say <unk> and you know that's that's the extent of it um and then there's a very very small minority of people who are interested in actually learning the language um probably a lot more with death rocky since there's book um but uh i mean <unk> maybe a hundred or so with the whole area maybe five or six [laughter] you know really interested in learning with three <unk> um they like they were <unk> they have sand groups like multiple plural one of them is over three thousand members wow yeah it's it's crazy they're they're actually uh working right now to put 'em together postal on to a lingo um which i mean you know i i think that's uh i think it's great but um there is uh there's definitely a more concerted effort amongst that community to learn it and to use it and just more activity around it more people asking questions about it and i figured that there are or or uh a few reasons for this one of courses that uh the one hundred is you know uh it it's ah it's um target demographic is younger than a game of drones um but you know that was also true if something like star crossed so of course it has to be a certain level of popularity running no one hundred isn't as popular game of turns but way more popular than something like star crossed um and then the uh the next factor is that it is basically english so it is super easy to learn [laughter] you know yeah if yeah if you if you just an english speaker you know it's it really ripped pays uh putting a little bit of effort into it because what you have a few weeks probably die fluent in it you know [noise] um so i think that that is what's really boosted it so much but it for me it's been rather you know surprising but also kind of fun because honestly like if you look at at ah at paul from her and you know he's doing things where like they have to have a uh not be conventions a year and they're flying them all over the place and he's got people right into him and his language and you know a huge fan community it's like that didn't happen until now uh for me nobody was really that interested in or as interested in in depth rocky <unk> to do that kind of thing whereas like i could imagine they're being treated assign convention or yeah sure this is this is what i call a fad <unk> or maybe people lots and lots of people who hang out at something like that not meet ups or hang out and they'll learn not me that or website maybe learned a little <unk> but mostly as a shot side of sort of fan membership fan solidarity and identify with the sort of you know kind of obvious um environmental and native rights message mhm that is so strongly president an avid tar um i'm wondering what it is about the grinders describing the people watching the show 'cause it it seems like you know people want these tattoos which is like how about you know the ultimate tribal market right there right yeah it's interesting how how fans who decided you know how many people are learning the language deeply or how many just want to know a few things to say i'm part of this group yeah [noise] yeah it's pretty it's it's it's pretty cool pretty complicated because of uh season three bucks an entirely different discussion um yeah and it'll it'll be interesting to see uh what happens moving toward it is a very interesting just like that i i tend to find with them and wanting to get tattoos it's always surprising to me like how many people are getting tattoos of these you know languages of friction old people it's <unk> i there's people aren't that much fans i will say that i would say that it's not a surprising to me because [noise] go go look at all the people that have gotten attached to like you know with one of my languages or with any uh uh <unk> on it and you ask them what is this your first tattoo i guarantee you like a hundred percent of the middle be now ah and <unk> and this is just the thing i've discovered about ah people you either have zero tattoos or you have to wear more nobody has one tattoo yeah that's that's a good point uh they it's like a it's like they become they become addictive so uh um it's so i think for people that are attached to people it's actually not as big a deal if you think oh there's this show i really like it cool let's let's get something in the language or tattooed um so i don't think it's as big a commitment for them as uh on tattooed people think it is [laughter] okay [laughter] i wonder if they have a three tattoo person [noise] eliminate would not have occurred to me to get something from a show i really liked tattooed on my body what about your own languages [noise] if i'm ever going to get in touch with the language it's gonna be greek probably not one of your <unk> come on man not one of my colleagues i i i once had the idea of um you know i don't have any tattoos but i've had the thought of if i were to get tattoos you would be fun to get uh tattooed of just the languages that i speak <unk> ah just like brand that on my body [laughter] get branded literally george i suspect you want the tests you rather than them or not okay yes literally brent it but yes put put you know english a spaniel hi you uh when i hung out regularly on um [noise] uh <unk> dot com which is a a site for people who are teaching them subscription latin frequently people came asking for translations of their latin um again [noise] <unk> yes it's latin elevates them at spin off sell them sentiment through not tied to a language that you do not speak right [laughter] well i mean you know <unk> it helps people but people can trust david to give them accurate translations i hope [laughter] yeah yeah i know i i i i made i made double sure um now if i if they get a tattoo before i get back to them [noise] you know my my hands are clean their uh when i get back to people that i make sure it's good i tell you man the best one i've ever seen was i just so amazing uh this girl got a word <unk> tattooed on her stomach and it it's just it's so good i just love it it's amazing <unk> lends itself to decorative approaches to writing yeah i like it i think it looks pretty nice it's very pretty <unk> though [laughter] [noise] should i go back in like watch the rest of that show [laughter] um i mean it's it's kind of ah <unk> did it just leave off ah it it ended it ended uh very definitely but uh i mean it would kind of er really establish your your friend any status if you just you know casually keep dropping in conversation oh yeah i've been meaning to get back to that [laughter] [laughter] oh right dude [laughter] is there anything else interesting are fun you would like to share about the language well i'll tell you uh something that i'm planning to do i'm not there yet but um i swear i cannot keep up with uh i i i'm try and make it a concerted effort december but i can't keep up with the demand for um <unk> but something that i am planning to do when i get there which soon um right now it's at um at least by my my couch it said nine hundred and sixty four words [noise] when i get to a thousand i'm going to do something that i hope will be interesting to the con link community um i want to find him maybe you can help me with this um i wanna find a a kind of ah phoning uh frequency thing for english how many words in english percentage wise start with uh each phoney and then i want to compare that to treat a slang and see if there's any differences oh okay that's interesting would you want like funny frequency just based on dictionary and trees or based on a corpus well that's an interesting question as well yeah 'cause i mean you don't have much of a corpus of <unk> do you know so for this it would just be it would just be percentage of four of a dictionary entries right um so uh but for i mean you know i know what i can provide i don't know yet ah what we have for english so i'm going to be kind of constrained by what i can find [noise] because i'm not one of those techie people that can just create one of those things <unk> <unk> i would be baffled and astonished to find that there were not easily find double uh sunny frequency of us for different positions for english already yeah that that was my thought is well i'm sure there are yeah so i i almost think i've even seen one once but i may be thinking of a slightly different list 'cause one thing i <unk> i really want to be sure it's the phony and not the letter right now because that's that's a that's a big difference um i think the one that i may have seen may have been let her um which is you know obviously much easier to do sure yeah it's easy to find the end um crossword puzzle people like them yeah but i have i've seen phony breakdowns as well yeah yeah marry somebody kim kim uh send something like that i would um here's what my production would be mhm is that the distribution who's gonna be very similar especially with the at the higher frequency and maybe at the lower frequency and you'll have some some interesting things going on yeah that's that's my thought too and i and right now um man asks us just leading the charge [laughter] so many um mel unfortunately something that i'm going to have to separate out is that of course s. includes both sat in shock so i need to separate that out on my end um part of the reason why it's so big but um but yeah english is a very very essie language <unk> all the time [laughter] yes [laughter] okay well that's that's an interesting thing ah william did you have any other questions nope um <unk> uh uh i'm going to link into <unk> whatever uh whatever resources we can uh get uh oh yeah three at a sign that info <unk> yeah can you add just add stuff to the show notes like you know communities that you know of that website and such so yeah also the <unk> the memorize courts yeah i know about those um i know that there's ah a group on slack yeah right right by the lake david how you've been on in that group right yeah yeah like slack very interesting um i mean it's uh it's uh i i like it better than um a._t._m. which is what i use or like i._r._c. i guess is what that is um you can do more stuff ah and ah and frankly i i <unk> well maybe we could talk this about this offer courting a little bit because i'm sure i'm i'm interested in it but uh it's not directly related but you know that community how how how good is that then um well i mean of course the the community that this one it's specific so it's not <unk> it's like invite only so this is all people talking about three good it's like and they're absolutely amazing in fact they come up with uh they come up with their own words all the time that they use uh just amongst themselves because they they they have like a whole bunch of different channels one of them is just for them to practice just speaking to to get a <unk> or writing it um and they're all they're all really good um yeah i absolutely love that um i'd lived that didn't jump in all the time but um you know this baby i heard that you like picked up a few of the words like the oh yeah i mean 'cause that's the one thing that's the one thing like like if you're thinking about a regular con line right like nobody can i mean they can try to contribute and stuff but they're not going to get it with uh with something like treated us like you can rely so heavily on your english <unk> instincts that um others actually can contribute and do stuff that i look at it and say yes that actually works that fits that's good whereas like most of the time you know for another <unk> not doesn't work yeah that is going to be a lot rare for stuff like with rocky yeah so well that's cool yeah um i will all right then um i i i will lick to information on that uh but i will lick to all sorts of stuff and whatever whatever links we can find and uh yeah this this is very interesting and i think you know it's interesting <unk> route to take when making ah a ah a con lying one that uh apparently we're kind of forced to go into but ah i think it it turned out some interesting results yeah i've been happy with it's so easy to translate into [laughter] [noise] you're almost like you you could like speak this link yeah almost i better with typing but ah [noise] almost [noise] okay um [noise] williams you have anything else [noise] alright well uh that's all you know say um [noise] uh drew strangers down [laughter] thank you for listening to <unk> you could find our our tribes and show no fat <unk> dot com you can support the show on patron at patriotic dot com slash <unk> you can also follow us on baseball quieter brutal plus and on top of more now all of those you just find on larry our web space is provided by the language creation society <unk> the music is by no device and our news site was designed by bianca richer [noise]

Tags

  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. conlang
  4. David Peterson
  5. language
  6. linguistics
  7. The 100
  8. Trigedasleng

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 121 Trigedasleng (last edited 2017-09-10 06:41:41 by TranscriBot)