Conlangery #21: Poetry

Conlangery #21: Poetry

Published: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:00:53 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 [noise] <unk> ah [noise] oh <unk> <unk> whom lung or mm mm mm mm mm mm well gum to hold libraries <unk> started languages create ah five george correlate with me is the brilliant <unk> blurred pretty dot org [laughter] hi [laughter] i'm still hoping to be lovely someday but okay [laughter] maybe i should have called your lovely because we all get stopped here right by the way beyond 'cause there's nothing bianca has a bad cold can barely cough but she would be coughing the whole episode so we're doing an episode without bianca and since bianca hates poetry we scrambled at the last minute to put together the poetry episodes yes because she wouldn't even entertain uh putting it putting it in an episode she hates it so much but we both like it [laughter] [noise] [laughter] [noise] so since we've already mentioned our topic why don't we grill into so poetry poetry is something fairly advanced uh you're gonna have to involve sort of a little bit of <unk> culture when you're doing poetry and but basically the the point of poetry is it's art work it's you have certain traditional constraints that you work with or different sort of ways of manipulating language to make a certain kind of art form and uh so well you you listed down all these different things that you can do with um with poetry all these different things that can be used to to formulate poetic styles sure um my favorite description of well the one the first thing i want to say is the poetry can affect language across multiple levels or it can you can use language differently from normal day to day speaking in different parts of the language it might used weird vocabulary it might use weird syntax it might use weird morphology [noise] um it might do strange things with your sound system or even to form words and funky ways [noise] so there's there's just so much going on there apart from what you know english speakers are used to which is just rhymes and and and maybe strange syntax to to make them eat at work and the other thing is you touched on this the question of conned cultural aspects what we write poetry about and noticed that i've said right there which is a little bit artificial start with what we produce poetry about differs pretty radically from culture to culture um there's this magnificent and horrible collection of short occasional poetry covering several hundred years of um greek literature called the greek anthology it's got more than a thousand poems and every conceivable subject is touched on [laughter] planning about somebody who's wine is bad um a difficult girlfriend or boyfriend politics um [noise] there's an entire section complaining about people having large noses [laughter] bad breath their gas the i mean every conceivable thing <unk> topic became unacceptable subject for poetry uh-huh and some that we can't even talk about because we're not doing the the the taboos language episode oh yes well um yeah if you listen to that you know one of those things [laughter] right right yeah there's just this is whereas in in other in american culture especially well let's let's pick off in in english speaking culture up to about a hundred years ago there are a lot of topics that you would not touch on in poetry these days that's less often the case that their subjects that you wouldn't do [noise] um so that's one of the things to think about you know why people might write poems if you're actually creating a culture for for for this language [noise] right 'cause <unk> the sort of poems traditionally <unk> produced in japan are quite different from the post traditionally produced in pre switch are quite different from the poems traditionally produced and you know you're on mhm yeah and then the other oh go ahead no no i had the the other <unk> culture thing to worry about is what who is a poet [noise] all up and down the indoor european zone from india to ireland the poet was kind of a scary guy he was probably the highest paid profession um up until you know a few centuries after the the beginning of the the iron age at least [noise] and mystical magical powers are attributed to them all across the entire european sphere you hear about poem poets who get ticked off by somebody and write a satire that causes the person either to die for motivation or to kill themselves <unk> [laughter] right yeah we've got problems about this india grease ancient greece and uh the the celtic poets where we're similarly dangerous [noise] um in old irish culture some poets were lawyers they were the repositories f. traditional <unk> they weren't just sitting around under the trees riding love songs [noise] you know they were the <unk> of culture and custom in law yeah um in chinese culture at least especially after the tongue dynasty um you had basically any government any uh of the officials would also be poets because it was uh poetry was actually on the uh the exams yeah yeah [noise] so in in china and japan it was expected it to a certain degree i think in in um victorian england it was expected that it well educated judgment would be able to produce burst yes [noise] so all of these things are different um <unk> we're so used to this idea of amuses but the ancient greek and uses are pretty funny first of all they're named a very weird news is related to the root for the word memory mhm so right they're they're trying to <unk> second of all um <unk> <unk> they're they're not as friendly [laughter] as modern sort of romantic notions of dumb uses would have [noise] one of my favorite examples is he's <unk> who was you know somewhere around home or give or take a hundred years [noise] talks about him getting you know getting that laurel branch in being inspired would poetry and the first thing that amuses do when they see them as they're incredibly rude to him [noise] they make fun of humans you miserable wretch is um and then they say and we can say truer folks things you know however we feel [laughter] okay right so this is this is part of that sort of ambiguous situation they stand in yeah [noise] so [noise] um i <unk> i guess why don't we actually move on to the more formal stuff right yeah the mechanics of it [noise] my favorite definition of verse comes from room on yahoo groups and who was a russian structural linguist and he said that verse is equivalents is promoted <unk> device if the sequence see isn't that clear it's all over everything it's clear we could just move on [laughter] uh yeah uh uh i guess i'd lay in bed at nine eleven [noise] that that's kind of ethnic medic yes but when he's talking about is equivalents he's promoted to the device of the sequence equivalent some feature in the language it's picked and it is is decided that some kinds of that feature are equivalent to some kinds are not in english it's rough time it's that vowels sound becomes equivalent mhm or in a more complex rainfall constant you know all of that [noise] in um chinese versus like tons of fear or things like that syllables that's the equivalent writings that with puncture has five or seven syllables blind always yeah and i i want to talk about <unk> later because it's there there's so much complexity in that but right so in addition to that um pretty much any linguistic feature you can imagine can be one of these equivalent to stress right <unk> weight that is is the syllable have along valor shortfall is about is the syllable open or close accents [noise] you can do grammatical orson tactic repetitions <unk> we can give an example of that when we talk about the ancient near eastern stuff mhm um meaning repetition antithesis which is very common in semitic verse are also things that can be repeated changed we'll give examples of that typically of or system is going to mix in <unk> mhm yeah oh syllable counting like the the poems of uh france typically are strictly syllable counting like the <unk> all that stuff was syllable counted in addition to <unk> and we've already mentioned chinese verse japanese verse is not actually syllable counting it's uh more accounting oh really yeah so the definition you've always heard of a hike who is wrong [laughter] 'cause it's syllable isn't the same thing as a as a as a syllable count ah um and i was gonna say [laughter] so the old irish poetic system practically any linguistic feature you can conceive of was used in <unk> uh the most sophisticated old irish poetry is it's frankly baffling to meet anyone can produce it [noise] you have <unk> liberation you have syllable counting you have required um uh liberation you have internal rhymes in addition to the line rhymes you have certain sounds that occur the end one line have to be repeated the beginning of the next line and the first line and the last line of every pull must have a common word or syllable okay that really see i was going to talk about puncture as an example of them are very rigid than complex system but that blows it out of the water yeah it's pretty it's pretty [laughter] yeah <unk> all of the tricks that the irish do pop up and other forms of poetry like ancient greek mhm there the the system is rhythmic patterns of long and shorts syllables with various kinds of tricks to modify things but they also certain of the arcade coach especially do tricks with older generation do tricks with funky internal um not enron but and patterns so [noise] [noise] yeah and one's saying probably that if you want to make a realistic poetic kurdish and i mean if you just want to write a few poems that's one thing but if you want a realistic poetic tradition your culture will have multiple poetic forms <unk> so you can even mix and matched these these things into several different foreign for your language right i mean it's ah [noise] <unk> [noise] so that's one of the interesting thing is is higher <unk> cultures tend to have advanced um literary cultures are advanced diverse cultures [noise] it's really important to to to drive this home the ancient greeks were producing astonishing least sophisticated poetry before their appearance on the world stage they're making crappy pottery and and crappy tools at the same time they were producing mind boggling lee sophisticated elegant poetry wow [laughter] that's because the poet had an important job in the culture and it had an important job in spreading the fame and reputation of the aristocrats the aristocracy mhm [noise] um [noise] in addition to that so you you have this job this profession that develops informal things start to appear [noise] home or has all of these very uh common formulate phrases that appear at the beginning of the ends of versus lines they sit there nicely there formulaic and he can throw that in while he thinks that the rest of the line [noise] and over time be systems to become really really complex i actually don't like reading poetry from the most advanced period of a civilization because you cannot understand it without understanding everything that came before contemporary chinese poetry contemporary arabic poetry contemporary persian poetry is almost impossible unless it frees itself from the shackles or tradition because unless you read the previous thousand or two thousand years you don't know what's going on [laughter] [laughter] yeah well definitely for one thing if you read like traditional tongue poetry in chinese for one thing you have to understand classical chinese to read it sure [laughter] but <unk> that hard i think i think tongue poetry is easier to read the tongue pros or really chinese pros he i think so mm well i don't know any classical so it's completely lost out on me so [laughter] but it is that is an <unk> that's a separate issue to deal with register and <unk> what the written standard is but [noise] yeah it's very um and one thing i wanted to know is the structure and the your phonology and morphology have your language can affect which of these various things can um the these various orders you can apply right for example in my opinion english works much better with meter than was so <unk> and that's kind of reflected in that a lot of english poetry uses meter metro feet rather than syllables [noise] um [noise] in my opinion english is actually a combination of syllable counting and meet her watching uh the really good example but english is bad at is um uh the sort of poetry that happens agree can latin syllable weights uh yes people try to do that and there's nothing there to grab because english english you can have some <unk> i mean it has long and sort of dallas but their condition of anyhow we don't attend to that distinction in words yeah we don't <unk> we don't really care about it so it's hard to write to ride it doesn't stop people from trying with the results are i think are not very successful another thing i was noticing and this is sort of after you've already worked on poetry a little bit but you'd figure this out but different languages have different ways at least languages some languages uh chinese that's needed because they just kept the characters and that's the soles but say ah there's ways of fudging your meat or or your soul what counts like english english there's a lot of all these uh why did um words like air and set of ever and all that sure and then spanish you blend the vows which was actually something that occurs in normal speeches vowels blend with each other across work uh boundaries income become almost <unk> and also you change the syllable count in spanish according to where stress falls on what final so right and uh i'm sure you can figure out find some other examples but i'm not aware of [noise] yeah no <unk> the longer a poetic tradition exists the more stunts people come up with [noise] so what do i talked about that equivalent that's promoted to the <unk> the sequence that equivalent can get fudged in in some versions in in different kinds of ancient greek poetry and this is true of arabic poetry and end of um i think even how's that follows these patterns right you've got long syllables and short settles [noise] in some places if you you you have to put a lung syllable you didn't also put too short syllables as being most more or less equivalent mm yeah <unk> right so you can do various tricks [noise] um [noise] that you talked about that vocabulary that's really quite common too is you have a special vocabulary for poems and it's only used in poems [noise] now that source can be different um in some languages you might pick up features of other dialects which were considered more prestigious or was it was taught at the songs from there were better so a lot so a lot of arabic pop singers singing the dialect of cairo even though they're not from there [noise] um [noise] you might have really old grammatical forms homers notorious for [noise] preserving words that don't even fit the meter anymore but because that's where the phrase goes he keeps using it that's kind of like anyone who wants to right we were talking about hung poetry in china today uh a lot of people say that if you have to <unk> wanna ride it today you have to actually look up what the rhymes would have been in a school chinese right right rather than using <unk> and what the old tones worse since you know <unk> is not just regulated by syllables but there are tone patterns that mattered oh yeah you have to look up what words had eaten in young towns because and not the modern times either but tons of millennium ago yeah that's very [laughter] so that's a very sort of artificial <unk> where they don't exist anymore and some some right right languages so it would have my favorite examples of these formal systems if there's a a style of uh poetic form and called them 'cause see though which is used an arabic and then it's sort of spread out [noise] and there are certain i think it's <unk> it could be another one i have a friend who who's <unk> who went to school in saudi for a while when she was a kid and they were reading one of these problems and you start off praising the quality of the camel that has been given to you by your local prince [noise] um [noise] and then you move on to other topics then you talk about you know your blood who you're so happy that you got this camels you can go see and my poor fred <unk> the transition from one section to the next was vague so at one point heard a friend were concerned [noise] to know if he was praising the camel or his girlfriend [laughter] he's still talking about the camel i don't i i hope not you know [laughter] but you know there are things in in in the <unk> in the traditional japanese hike who form there are words called key go that you must have mentioned words that having association with seasons or there's some other non seasonal key goes well so this develops in these you know if your culture if your con culture has a long history of the sort of thing then you you might wanna think about you know a sophisticated audience who's heard a lot of poetry already and who has expectations of their <unk> yeah [noise] and that depends on that depends on whether the form is for the uh say the quote unquote high born or for the the regular people in the street or sure um well go ahead oh i was gonna say we've been talking a lot about really obvious sort of linguistic features syllables rhyme oh the duration um bible link but that's not the only thing that you could base a poetic system on you might have very free flowing line is um and instead work with different things um really common in the ancient and you're east was you'd have these parallel lines for two or three repetitions with slight variations and then with the last line of the variations you know sort of ending out that little stands on you moving on to the next so i have a little section here from <unk> should i read that yeah go ahead and read it unless you want me to this is just translation on the third day they reached the appointed field there the hunter and the <unk> arrested at their seat one days two days they look at the entrance to the well we're the cattle were accustomed to like their thirst where the creatures of the water's were sporting then came <unk> who's home was the mountains who whisked as those eight herbs with the cattle flights of stairs and with the creatures are the water's rejoiced his heart so there you go we've had two examples of that with three lines that sort of <unk> you start off with one and then the following one sort of expands on it a little bit and the next one to expand on an even little bit more [noise] uh okay i see i think i tried to do this with a con lying i was writing uh something poetic and i tried to do that sort of um there was like a statement first and then three lines that repeated each other kind of right in this way right so equivalents and variation is the secretive poetry in this particular case the equivalent is just an tactic structure and demeaning even um within systems like this and to this this is a very common mhm where you you say well here's an example from the bible <unk> glad father but foolish son is the happiness of his mother mhm same idea repeated two different ways [noise] yeah or rather the the first part of it is is opposed in order like emphasize right right you're different holidays [noise] um one thing i wanted also mentioned is uh you might as well i don't want to write any any poems at all but i'd say if you if you wanna write any kind of music if you want to write i mean if you wanna write vocal music in your <unk> you need poetry because music uses poetic forms in order to form the structure of the of the standards and versus yep uh-huh seeing those syllable counting matters more [noise] although the syllables you count don't have to be normal i mean [noise] in western music we're so used to the the fixed for time or the three time [noise] but you know in in the near east these things might have five or seven or nine or all sorts of possibilities are available there mhm [noise] yeah um i think basically probably i'll look for some resources on different poetic devices just a link to hear because they're er this is another thing we're there are so many things that we could just like less down okay right <unk> all that stuff um and etcetera etcetera and define each one you probably need to do a little research yourself but um one thing i want to mention but uh i want to go back to what i was saying and and uh what poetic devices work um depends on how your language is structured uh i wanted to like uh i have an example um so i have a language i'm working on now i <unk> which i haven't worked out in <unk> <unk> one of the state and i've already made is i won't use rhyme because and i go every now every <unk> every adjective has uh required <unk> and like it to a certain point adding rhyme would just be very similar to <unk> and just rhyming would get boring 'cause it had required suffix is on everything [laughter] so it might that's that's one that that's just both the phonology and the the um the morphology needs to be considered sometimes sure so in arabic poetry in part with a little help from the kramer but with other things [noise] it is not uncommon to see a strict rhyme scheme for an entire <unk> the final three syllables mhm [noise] and those pilots have no problem at all relying on a grammatical equivalent to make that work mhm uh whereas because because of the the <unk> system well it's not the track on settled system it's some of the normal morphology a verb might you can get quite hefty on a verb depending on on what you're doing [noise] um where is that sort of trick would be considered a little bit vulgar in in another language i would be quite insane to try to do with english you'd almost have to do exactly the same word on me [laughter] yeah that would be very hard in english president <unk> because english being a northern european language has a ridiculous number of owls [laughter] arabic has three [laughter] this is true so but but to do but for example to do that stunted s. bronco was considered tasteless or it would be very easy to do it has brought home but it's discouraged [laughter] well the <unk> that's another issue that that was <unk> that would have would have made it <unk> weird with my language because ah spread out though you have your obligatory suffix is for now an adjective an herb so it would it would kind of get annoying wouldn't it [laughter] yeah [laughter] so we've got even talked about the vast array of literary techniques similarly metaphor reference um it seems to be common across the planet universal but common for certain kinds of poetry to be really upset skewer mhm like they use the full combination of old words and weird words and syntax and reference and all of that results in problems that are very hard to understand we have a whole bunch of <unk> which are practically impossible to decipher because they <unk> first of all is gone [laughter] active all even compared to other poetry for whatever reason have decided to rely on arcade features so it's it's very very obscure and some of the ancient um irish and indie um basic and greek poke poets every once in a while just spotted this very very difficult stuff [noise] in fact we even have a uh one of the beta kim's even includes a line that says the gods love the obscure [laughter] sort of their justification for for writing problems no one could figure out well you know but it doesn't have to be that right you can have homes that are perfectly clear in intents and purposes yeah uh i could say probably if you have an intellectual class writing poetry that sees sees their their ah quote unquote superior intelligence as an important part you might get a lot more of that obscure and near an decipher won't poetry yeah if there is a culture of connoisseur worship in and so forth yeah it does seem and it's probably not an accident that the aspects were uh uh [noise] you know uh an aristocratic culture it doesn't seem like you know just god save me from court poetry [laughter] unless you know every little thing that's going on it's just not going to make any sense [laughter] [laughter] yes yeah i'm i'm really really really not a fan of um poetry after the <unk> or even in the <unk> period it's just it's so intellectual and so scholarly and penn so much and having mastered everything that can before that there's really no pleasure and reading it [laughter] so it's like it's it's it's high rep poetry poetry for people who spend a lifetime studying right yeah um whereas you know you'll have clear poetry and the phone is ringing um you'll have clear poetry maybe from sort of more sleep in poetic traditions or even popular song sure exactly i don't know if i have anything else really to add you have [noise] [noise] no it's just uh my interest today is to just open the possibility for especially beginning con lying or who has not paid attention to [noise] um <unk> wasn't paid much attention to languages off the beaten track that there are lots of different ways to organize language into reverse um that don't involve rhyme yeah um i think my final advice to say on this subject is when you are uh working on poetic forms for your language number one you do your research and and figure out look at a few other languages and different different devices we keep heat is good on yet actually it is pretty good on a poetic devices and um also i'd say try things out in your language and see what feels feels good as poetic devices in your language i mean first first look at your your phonology and your morphology and a little bit instant expert syntax it'd be fudged a lot and poetry um yeah you might have weird again if you've got a long tradition you might have these strange pieces of grammar that only occur in poetry because someone did it you know a few hundred years ago and everyone said oh we should get that i've seen some spanish poetry that had bizarre word order that does not occur in a while um but basically you know look a little bit of your language and figure out see think about what devices would work well in in them and then try them out right up home and see if the which which of those make you feel the best about the the poetry or riding and it doesn't have to be a good poem [laughter] right does it <unk> <unk> in in pretty much after that the [noise] the romantic period we have these very precious ideas about poetry in the west and you know like i said just go back to that list of everything the greeks were problems about bad breath big nose is all it just [noise] if you really want to test the forum test it out on satires and and little things like that you know complaining about the weather or whatever before moving on to you know yeah yeah it's elevated you do not how you do not have to start off riding depressing poetry about the the the nature like tokens <unk> yeah you can you can just start with the the cultural equivalent of dirty limericks and see what <unk> just to see what devices work that's <unk> yeah um so with that fairly thoroughly covered i think we can move on to ah our featured on line for it today which is um i don't know how to pronounce this is caitlin for k. and then um in english i think she calls that just <unk> oh really but she she spells it on here is ah k. e. mac ron ellie and so i think that like k. land or something so <unk> or <unk> or whatever you want to call call it the main point of this language was say it was created by what's the name silliest <unk> my <unk> yep and her main point was this is an experimental language she wanted to create a language that has november yup is one of these experimental language is where i want to sit and worry or somebody says i want to make something that <unk> is unusual for human language and so she made one with no verbs at all and sort of the center piece of making making this language work is her relational yep which sort of but they allow her to not have verbs by having these sort of broken verb type things they're more more particles than anything else right they specified the relationship between the non phrases <unk> um which is yeah so she started making this language 'cause she read something in a linguistics course and said well that's ridiculous [laughter] well i mean i don't know if she thought it was ridiculous but that provided uh a prompt [laughter] to uh to to to create this language [noise] um when i first read about it i thought well this is highly bizarre natural subsequently i've learned about actual human languages that have maybe a dozen verbs mhm maybe two dozen that kind of and everything else has handled by some sort of <unk> with that small set of arms and [noise] um other sorts of words yeah so that's sort of pushed i mean from the standpoint of those languages <unk> is just a highly reduced version of one of those [noise] yeah that's that's kind of what i'm getting here is that these relation roles are basically just a closed in very small <unk> ah kind of kind of but uh they don't work exactly like where they do they do have some some inflections that that are reminiscent of herbs the meanings are a little bit too general really call them or some times right however they do take things like tense mhm person marking mhm [noise] anyway it's interesting language whether or not you want to accept that it's truly <unk> not well for the sake of argument um i'm i'm happy to <unk> <unk> these sentence the bowl is red is represented with a sentence that means <unk> has read this yeah um outside of her outside of the the main crux of it of of eliminating verbs i like um i like some other things i liked the script that she does on the very reminiscent of <unk> knock out a mhm um i think every script inventor has to produce something like that at some point in their careers [laughter] ah ah maybe i think they do it that the appeal is so obvious and and it is it is it i i do like the the way it the way that that <unk> works with the the horrors on the line on top right uh and uh let's see she doesn't give me a car but funnel logically it doesn't seem really that interesting right the spelling is funky which may be a source you know or uh [noise] the consequences if its history mhm [noise] um [noise] the website it's a very well documented language yes there's lots and lots of stuff in here and i've only looked mainly at the relational just just to to get the main point of the language understood but she has a very she basically has her grammar set out it's a website and it's very slick it and it all nice and and database driven so that her texts have <unk> where everything's click a bowl so that you know you click on a word and it will take you to every example of that we're in the news it's it's very nicely laid out yeah i like that she has a uh ken shipped terms chart with a big giant family tree that explains that you can look up all this stuff holy cow i didn't go there that's a big when the bat yeah goodness looks like um a whole lot of people are called cousin [laughter] wow [laughter] but that may just be a function of the the mentality of the chart that she made here um she has all she has actually two riding systems one that's just the regular and one that's this ceremonial thing <unk> writing system that basically you arrange it into what looks like what looks sort of like um celtic not we're not work yeah <unk> except that actually has meaning attached to it so that's an interesting thing so this is definitely very well thought out <unk> very <unk> uh well worked out language lots and lots of nice examples mhm yeah lots of lots of examples lots of lots of documentation she has oh well she has a lot of different um pets a lot of uh translated tax and then i think for someone interested in how figuring out how this verbal business works out is to go to that some translated texts area and then at the bottom of a lot of the pages she'll have an <unk> and then you can just go and stare and figure out how things work mhm [noise] yeah um so i mean look at north when did this on oh no everyone loves that that'll be fairly easy so it starts out with concerning an argument with north when the sun right so this is one of those places where her relational or not entirely um verbal like 'cause one of the relational <unk> um is it's it's just telling you that it introduce <unk> yeah they're <unk> they're introducing uh well there's a conjunction that introduces the the first thing your concern enjoyment and then write worth when the sun right there's a relational that sort of vaguely notes that these two are the <unk> and the argument i guess well no the let me find the page if i can um [noise] the point is it this is the relational <unk> aren't single function uh-huh um and she was really good job of listening to a different significance is in the <unk> this one that we are talking about here is say and didn't fairly complicated um it's usually used for marking it's called the transaction relational and it's used for things they could giving and receiving known benefactor senses and she is really good about saying you know say plus known phrase means this say plus non phrase but this thing means another thing and then the last one is say plus non phrase period just says and the non phrases introduced oh okay so that i think is an interesting way to to take these take take that on so that's definitely not ever be behavior i see so they're not so basically the the way that she eliminated verbs is to put in these things that actually at first last they might actually looked like <unk> but as you look deeper into um they have so many different possible uses and they're they're so vague and and um and have so many uses that are not verb like at all but you can't really call them <unk> right very interesting way to handle that so yeah it kinda breaks your head to look at it at her gloss as <unk> a little bit it can't break your head yeah because you're you're looking at this and you're trying to figure out where um how she makes things mean anything and but yeah <unk> that's the interesting part about this is it it's it's it's not as mind bending is is quill mhm but it certainly is a little it's a little bit of a wrench their brain yeah [laughter] i think they can worthwhile i think i think looking at it as as hard it is to get my head around just looking at it right here i think someone could actually learned this language oh yes absolutely i think that's possible yeah although i i confess that the chart of inflections that sometimes if you're a little bit scary [laughter] oh well there are labels she has tables and sometimes they alarmed me a little [laughter] i mean the learner there's little bit of work there and you know there's there's you know i've studied h._p. greek right so i shouldn't complain about tables but [laughter] but yeah but it's not so so like it kind of is the exception to our role with <unk> well yeah that that if you can think it up and someone can learn it it probably exist and all that <unk> this i have never heard of a natural language that has no verbs at all but somehow this language has no verbs and it looks like you could actually learning yeah [laughter] unlike if quill which has everything but it's just [laughter] it's <unk> or larger ban or um what else can i think ah log lamb well pose which is which is basically the same language with different right like strong but um but yeah it i suggest looking at it if you're a fan of these experimentally <unk> or if you're a fan of scripts honestly because it was on his very good i will confess that i've known about killing caitlin for years and years and years but because of the premise is i just it's like i don't like engineered languages why would i look at this but this is <unk> [laughter] so that was a mistake on my part to to not look at it for so long <unk> that's a lot of cool stuff yeah yeah um how how problems are approached when you've really taken to hurt the rule no verbs mhm and she even has built up a little bit of a <unk> culture out at too so uh some i don't uh uh just a little bit yeah no i think they're used to be more but i i'm feeding the details of that mhm i'm she also does a blog of the killing word of the day which has gone on for a long time yeah i'm looking at that right now which interesting and the requirement has pictures have cats on fridays [laughter] well um interestingly i i'm looking at this and it's not just she gives you the word and a definition but he she gives you the word and the definition and one or two examples or boy oh gee i know it's it's great yeah it's a it's a cool way to explore the <unk> the language to look through this law [noise] and uh of course you have that his linked off of her sight so you know it's all in one place and she has a surgical dictionary she's got all isn't she moving someone else's con laying into a into a web application format i think she is she's she's she does web development yes i hearts p. h. p. [laughter] there's a blog for helping people you know come to terms with making their their <unk> web pages dynamic rather than static oh i see [laughter] that would be um interesting for her to to to see more of those [laughter] but yeah i know it'd be <unk> i'm still i'm always torn [noise] a really nice electronic presentation of language is great and she and she has done a great version <unk> you go to those inter linear as you've got cross vocabulary and the dictionary gives examples and to say it's it's everything i would want [noise] out of an electronic on line mhm that said i still prefer to read uh nicely types it p._d._f. most of the time uh-huh if you if you have to do too much little to at least stuff to make a web page look right you're just fighting you're just fighting with h._t._m._l. and it's a design and its purpose [laughter] well here's the thing they uh the nice to be typed p._d._f. i like more reading straight through yeah this is just <unk> this this type of site is good for browsing through and research i think that you know different between reading and researching yeah i i do not want to read homer online i absolutely want the dictionary i used to look up where it's at homer online [laughter] yes [noise] um so i think that about wraps it up it's a blast for on caitlin for me is go ahead and take a look at it even if you're not that interested in uh engineered languages it's a very she had she took an interesting concept and actually implemented it very well well there's all sorts of stuff going on it has nothing to do the verbs which we've focused on here it's all of those things are still interesting in useful yeah and you you can look at yeah i should i should mention a little but you know she has she uses uh possessed pronoun forums and complex hierarchy of intimacy all sorts of stuff there's all sorts of <unk> of um many ideas to use fully pill for just to come to your own kind of like you know there's a lot of different stuff you can you can attach and it's all it's not <unk> like some of the p._d._f. slight we've looked at [laughter] very um very light description and just heavy examples um so i think that's about all i'll say about it but it's just i just recommend gone to the site and looking at it [noise] um let's see i didn't choose a feedback because i'm lazy [laughter] but we've sort of how the listeners that when i logged on described to record george was working on his own language <unk> so i think i think we can excuse [noise] a little confusion in the <unk> cast when the guy who runs it was working on his <unk> [laughter] it was uh i i i was uh yeah i was typing up some stuff for you but um uh we did they get two two comments and quick succession for carpet to solve all on episode was it um mood yeah on episode eighteen mood um i think there was at some point i asked somebody to correct me on the pronunciations for um for no reason poorer pronouns so he has listed here yeah hey hey ah he may <unk> <unk> i think <unk> sorry i have trouble with <unk> sometimes when the song and then he has a few um he gave us a few <unk> it looks like which she needs to record and give us a link to because i'm not even going to try to pronounce these i'll try i'll try the first one <unk> uh <unk> uh uh oh hey they're all <unk> and oh it there yeah except i'm guessing those bottle stops aren't there i wanna hear it from a native yeah okay hey record those and will listen to the recording and tried to repeat them okay [laughter] we'll see we'll see if we can do that but i'll i'll link to both of those comments on the senate but yeah he he these are obviously tongue twister <unk> because they're you know nonsense he gave us translations and they're nonsense and they're just you know practicing sounds but [noise] yeah 'cause otherwise one off it has occasion to say does father understand the <unk> is not mother [laughter] [laughter] uh and george what are you doing [laughter] i'm just looking at the the shows email real quick um but um that's about all i'm really that's all all i have for feedback but yeah keep emailing us by the way and all that stuff [noise] but ah for now i'm going to ask william any final words of wisdom nope not this week i'm going to <unk> i'd need to stop <unk> because nobody ever has wisdom uh out at at you once and click on that was worthwhile yeah maybe okay well <unk> thank you for listening to con library you can find all our episodes and show notes as well subscribe to r. i. too or are assess speeds through con larry dot <unk> dot org you can also like our face book page or follow at con library on porter if you would like to contact us with corrections comets questions or suggestions or even suggest your own caught lying is a feature please a male <unk> uh gee male dot com or call in to our new voicemail lard three zero four eight seven three six to eight one [noise] we also have a handy suggestion more on our <unk> our name was related by and then <unk> [noise]

Tags

  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. conlang
  4. Kēlen
  5. language
  6. linguistics
  7. meter
  8. morae
  9. poetry
  10. verse

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 21 Poetry (last edited 2017-09-07 11:17:50 by PeteBleackley)