Conlangery #30: Numeral Systems

Conlangery #30: Numeral Systems

Published: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 17:00:33 +0000 \

Content from the Conlangery Podcast is licenced as Creative Commons Attribution - Non Commercial - Share-Alike. You are free to copy, distribute, remix, and create derivative works from the show, so long as you give attribution, your work is not commercial in nature, and you also use a the same license on your own product. The same licence therefore applies to the following transcript.

Transcript

utterance-id1 <unk> okay so yeah <unk> and so he's so can you know <unk> k. c. show [noise] welcome to con libraries apart cats about second language is people who create them <unk> ah with me it's my lovely cohost richard i eat it better yesterday um hello and be in nicole william and [noise] i i'm running out of adjectives gee i'm not sure that's what i'm hoping that um well whatever maybe you meant that what what is it <unk> i i can't remember i hope you're aiming at in <unk> in <unk> which means not to be not capable of being now i'd get the help they felt like amicable for sure that's probably not entirely true but i i used to i used uh <unk> well before oh by the way i have posted uh grammar of rio on line and like you know still not complete i have one section that i have no examples for and stuff but no languages ever complete stop giving excuses just get it out there yeah well i'm applying i'm applying for um linguistics programs and i thought i might want to put that on line when i'm doing that so in case somebody goes with me and wants to look at it or i might even send it off i wouldn't um people in the linguistics well i'm not as happy family <unk> yeah no i i would agree with <unk> yes some people yeah that is a <unk> that's why i'm not sure whether i want to highlight it or not but i didn't but that's just me anyway [laughter] oh okay because there's so much flak any now it's a good <unk> now like in restaurants but i swear that i've heard people have positive experiences with that like i think that the creator of scare said that um he actually was working with his professors with his <unk> but that may have been an undergraduate anyway yeah we hear these things it's just it's just our dreams only or dreams well here's the thing i've ever had an <unk> <unk> <unk> and yeah that that one out tonight so can really tell if you wanna take the one in ten chance well it's probably not one in ten 'cause i can guarantee you a small number will be hostile yeah well i don't know but um um this is getting a little awkward why don't we should cut this <unk> this is this is bad radio anyway um so our topic today is numerals and uh so we're <unk> we're saying numerals it's where somebody one of us might slip at one point but we're trying to say numerals rather the numbers are number system because of the fact that we do on the show refer to grammatical number so we're we're trying to make sure we keep those those concepts separate so you know in case anybody who's listening who is not very linguistically inclined and doesn't understand why we're saying numerals all the time that's why but uh i think most people who are listening well understand but anyway [noise] why don't we get into how numerals work first thing when you're setting up a new moral system i think in a language is you have to decide what base it is <unk> before he even start making up words because you have to know what are you guys there yeah yeah okay i just not number of people okay we're not fighting to get into this just okay okay um so the the first thing you need to do is you have to decide what your base is so i have a and i'll put these in the show hosts walls has a bunch of ah different articles on numerals which i guess it could be there's just a really easy thing to elicit the say ah how do you say one to ten <unk> how did you say all this stuff but um basically they mention that um the vast majority of human language is used a decimal system that's based ten system but there's a significant minorities that use of adjustable that's based twenty and then some that use hybrid <unk> decimal system we mentioned so some of those in in the ah last pod cast we were talking about baskin danish having some odd <unk> stuff right and um one thing is i didn't believe that this was actually like um i i thought that this was sort of like a wild theory about it when i first heard about it but since this then i have read about other phenomenon that support it but but the proponents of decimal system is actually and we're just most systems is actually because we have ten fingers and ten toes why would you disagree with that well it seemed it just seemed a little too easy at first but then i learned that there are so many languages that have the the root for five derived from the word for hand like that i'm like oh okay so it's actually it might have something to do with our hands yeah [laughter] wow you you just broke up terribly on that sorry [laughter] but no the the reason i was skeptical was that it whenever i run into something that's that's that simple of an explanation it sounds sounds odd to me but then now i realize that it it actually makes sense right now i have a very very small number of languages that are based eight yeah aren't lead their country to spaces between their fingers yes it's been suspicious 'cause it's kind of weird but i guess elect for that and it's surprising um william you are massively breaking up and robotic okay sorry can you <unk> maybe it's probably just sky but anyway um yeah i don't know i don't know why i thought it was so um i believe will but anyway venting of language for humans think about fingers into those yeah and and hands yeah you are more than likely i decimal system is <unk> if you don't if you don't care what about making anything unique about your numerals system just use a decimal system uh but that doesn't mean you on a crazy fun well maybe not <unk> [laughter] crazy crazy now they system that you have to you could get high paced and there's plenty of other things you can do with a <unk> yeah you know if you're doing it for aliens who have faith figures then well face ate my work don't do don't do the uh the battlefield earth thing because the idea of having eleven fingers is just ridiculous anyway but um so that's not the only that's just the first thing you need to figure out is what's my narrow face which you know you could go with six ten you could go with face twenty if you want to go out there you can you can go with something weird like five or <unk> eight oh he's a base five <unk> that i guess this is a good segue into the issue is once you decide you're doing <unk> how do you create the digits in between and it seems awfully common for even if you're using what's basically ten system right so i should use for it basically here um um william i'm going to hang up on you and call you again hello matt yeah okay well as as you were saying right so i i did once you've decided to use <unk> ten you still have to create all those numbers in between and we've already mentioned that five sometimes special [noise] and so your numbers from six to nine may include some digits or all of them um that are <unk> apparently somehow related to word for five yeah you you mentioned the language that does this uh natural language how's your tour yeah lots of natural language is do this is a turn out the but <unk> example like six is one five to five so it basically yeah trends currently derives six to nine from the work for five but otherwise it's <unk> no it's it's been ten but <unk> <unk> well confusing thing is it may be the case that not all of your digits between six and nine are somehow related to five you know nine might be some weird thing they decided to borrow seven from the neighbors down the line so i mean there's all sorts of number systems can be very weird and seemed to be especially susceptible to um ariel affects and borrowing and all of that stuff well yeah i mean even think of the um the the chinese new rules japanese probably korean as well but i didn't i don't and vietnamese and vietnamese they all just straight up borrowed the entire chinese numerals system wild preserving remnants of their original system right the the yeah you still have the like in japanese you have the accounting numbers still but you you also use straight up the entire chinese numerals system as an adjunct that's ah another interesting thing having two different numerals systems in a language that seems like an interesting way that you could add some were nist without making it too difficult on yourself sort of you use one numerals system in certain situations in one and another one [noise] yeah i mean that you need to explain that to be some cultural or political reason for that to be going on mhm hopefully that's <unk> that's a <unk> con cultural <unk> world and kind of manner yeah it's it's it's for those people who make world's with multiple languages and want to have interaction between them it's a it's a good [noise] maybe not i mean i can possibly see this coming like if you have god there's some sort of how they <unk> <unk> common counting <unk> fairmont mathematical pet <unk> actual number four four i just thought of this if there's taboo avoidance issues where number is very similar to another word for the name of god or peculiar taboo words so people invent anew number sure yeah you can do all sorts of things there's also the um supposedly there's the numbers are prone to fend irregular sound changes they where they imminent imitate numbers that are close to them right but that happen to latin where <unk> became uh what <unk> into european penn quake gained uh uh cuss sounds at the front and started peas right well it was already there because it was <unk> i i don't remember the whole the whole into your p._i._n. number system confuses me as a train so [laughter] yes one saying into your number numerals uh at least as far as i've seen are very strange [laughter] right so so getting back to this issue five the <unk> you know everyone says it has it been decimal system which is true but you've got one through five with the word for five related where the root for hand [noise] six through nine are some magical word that means five followed by one two three four ten my <unk> is hand plus torso and then from eleven to fourteen is <unk> you know <unk> <unk> i can't even talk today you know those plus the digit and then there's a special word for fifteen which is not as far as i can tell related to anything else and then sixteen through nineteen are <unk> totally plus when did you <unk> so you have this kind of base five system embedded in uh more pervasive leave adjustable system yeah that that can happen and also you can also had have um based in <unk> um embedded into vicious more you can have a <unk> yeah or even <unk> kind of <unk> yeah even um you can have even like something like base twelve and a base ten remnants of base twelve and a base ten system or something like that um do a <unk> i don't know i liked that were anyway but um more than just your numerical base okay going <unk> i think the next step is how do you couldn't show dropped numbers were well we'll talk about numbers from ten or whatever you're numerical base is to uh to a hundred to a thousand just <unk> your next order of magnitude what yeah you're just sort of your your your mid range numbers there you have several different things you can do the simplest system that i know of and i think this is like the simplest way to do it is in is the way that chinese does it and i talked about chinese all time on the show but this this is very relevant but uh so in chinese numbers greater than ten you the the ones that comes after ten the word pretentious or self eleven would be <unk> ten and one and then as you get multiples ten the number that it's multiplied by comes before so twenty five is <unk> <unk> to ten five that's that's really really a basic way to do it the thing is that as you can see in english and in a lot of other languages a lot of times at least the lower end of the numbers get some odd sort of historical irregularities put into you know like um you know obviously everybody knows english goes up to eleven and twelve and then search with the teams and um spanish does something similar where that goes all the way with unique roots up to um <unk> yeah up to fifteen so you can always have these sort of odd uh screw things if you want to add a little irregularity into your number number system and also you know i i'm sure all i think all of the indoor european languages tend to have unique roots on the number on the um on the multiples of pen don't they [noise] what do you mean by unique roots well they're not transplant lee drivable but there there's usually an obvious pattern there of relationship yeah i i made some changes have reached their effect i mean part of the issue here is how long have you had numbers above ten or fifteen or whatever the longer culture has these a longer time historical linguistics has a chance to rub off relationships right twenty thirty forty fifty those are all obviously related to the likelihood that's not a destiny though because i'm pretty sure chinese had really hide numbers a long time ago so well right because they're bureaucratic culture yeah um but um you're right um something and that's something else sort of a side issue um dependent on your con culture there are human language is that have no new rules no qualifiers at all or no numerals right i should say no numerals at all you uh the the famous example that everybody brings up is pure huh yeah um they're maybe others i'm not sure any one or the <unk> so it's very small yeah very much wisdom um there's there's very few languages that have that don't have at least sort of like the the lower end numbers the the lower end <unk> numbers but there's a few that are have no non and there's very few that have like wanting to but i think most of the people <unk> won't really be interested in the system like that probably not because a lot of people want um a lot of people want to have more interesting cultures in that uh that are like fairly widespread and i don't know if you could have a very widespread culture with with that simple of a number system [noise] well that that's a <unk> question that some other <unk> can deal with yeah um so i mean his are you going to come up with funky compounds for these mid numbers twelve thirteen fourteen [noise] are you going to have them pretty <unk> apparently visible ten and one ten with one you know different languages take this differently um being the european languages are likely to have odd balls for for elevens and twelve that's by no means universal oh you're <unk> like when i was going to channel three of my mind <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> and it's like mommy i got down there and they sent me an idea that yeah yeah so [laughter] [noise] well it doesn't <unk> doesn't german <unk> with the war and twenty hi ideal fact we're next night you're native fist and it's a lot higher guy yeah it throws it throws you off and this is the the <unk> the next step i was going to mention this really throws me off in chinese other below ten thousand the chinese number system is really easy to learn for anybody but if you come from a culture that you if you come from a language that uses a thousand system chinese uses the myriad system which is rather than grouping very large numbers by powers of a thousand it groups them by powers of ten thousand and you know at first you would think okay i just move all the commas and then figure it out but it really really gets a little difficult to handle right at first once you're while you're trying to do <unk> for a number one system through another um yeah for me any and this is has to do with learning you know a natural language telling time and numbers are always always always always the thing i have the hardest time with it until i met navajos verbs that is true ignoring navajos verbs getting numbers to flow naturally is is so much work for me for some reason you know what i mean <unk> if that's why i say if it has had that tiring time which i haven't had it in a mac i'd say fifty five what would you think that <unk> oh i know what it means so <unk> yeah i i <unk> just because once you've asked the question this way the spirit of perverse and he tells me means <unk> thirty yeah yeah yeah now it's five seventy five is five thirty that's right yeah it's half five is five thirty five uh-huh yes yeah yeah it's like i've gotten used to it i know they <unk> and just like steady [laughter] it was uh it was a funny thing when i went to in northern ireland then i encountered have five but yeah um that that's that's sort of just a separate thing but then you know how people use numbers in other contexts because they end up getting kind of turn out and one thing i didn't have any notes on is how language is show fractional numbers and um well fractional numbers and um what is like decimals yeah decimals fresh vegetables you know decimals i think are usually straightforward but that may be just because they were later and everybody barred from the same system or something right right for fractions half is likely to be a special word a third it's sometimes a special word and order is sometimes and you're right and this isn't decreasing order of likelihood and and then a quarter is sometimes especially where it after that all bets are off yeah yeah you need to go do research and um you know in in english we use you the um the the denominator port port part is um oh it's it's an oriental right and um but there's other languages it will do different things i think i think that chinese just says uh the the one number over the other number that could be uh i don't know it's been so long since i've dealt with chinese in general in chinese numbers and especially so but anyway i don't know that part i about so can i go back to <unk> sure yeah how <unk> <unk> <unk> which is what i thought but i do a lot of <unk> knife yeah on his life and um i just i just <unk> just thought about um thinking about ordinance numbers since i mentioned um tangentially their their um you can be all over the map it looks like balls has just a lot of different uh ways that a lot of different um categories here for how languages dude ordinary numbers it seems like it varies we should say for people who are not used to this terminology by ordinance we mean first second third fourth <unk> yes yeah so your basic number one two three four five those are cardinal numbers and then the numbers that you would well i don't even know like when you say uh the fifth of us that you know those would be ordinary numbers um so there's some language where they don't exist somewhat or they're just um they're indistinguishable from cardinals i don't understand how those two are different but um [laughter] context yeah um and um it seems like you're more likely to have a separate or know a word for a lower number like in in english we have first and second and third fourth fifth those are obviously derived from the cardinal numbers except for first and second yeah right [noise] um second our separate roots and there's some that it's distinguished only by syntax yeah where you're cardinal is you know the five dogs and the ordinary would be dog the five yeah that's what i i remember yeah i remember and i'm sorry for <unk> referring to chinese in spanish so much but i know i remember in spanish that there are technically ordinary ordinance numbers for everything but nobody really uses the separate or no form above like thirteen so it's kind of it again it's how how big it is depends it depends on how big the number is whether they're going to use the <unk> um but you separate or tunnel numbers forums or special roots bianca you were going to say how you did your ordinary now i <unk> <unk> yeah yeah <unk> that's not a tiny like an interesting way to to um <unk> <unk> <unk> how <unk> right okay well i'm sure this i mean what she did occurs of natural language is so yeah yeah you can yeah everything has gone and i do yeah well that's that's the whole i mean we're bringing up this question is it's <unk> once you got your number's whether they're <unk> er cardinals is there's often if if you have um a known phrase structure that's pretty strict right you're you're determine or has to go one place or no it has to go one place your attitude has to go one place it is very likely that you're number will have a very fixed position and it may not be the same as you would expect you know from like english or something it may move around in funny ways yeah it's worth looking at it natural language is to see the possibilities there is using a number with a noun saying five dogs in english and most new european languages using a number two or above triggers the use of a plural number down right we say five <unk> [noise] this is not the case in all languages in some languages once you've used a number of they're like well we don't need the stupid plural marking oh that's funny [noise] right so they don't i think uh i don't think i'm lying when i say hungarian works that way that's that's an interesting um that's that's very interesting um when you think about it i i know that you know <unk> i know that chinese having very limited uh plural marking in the first place they sometimes will um when it's <unk> medically necessary to indicate that it's one of something they will put the number one in there so it's sort of [noise] oh sure they may do that more often than we do to be clear yeah sometimes sometimes they they they do that um another thing is george <unk> for people who don't know chinese it's not that chinese has week number marking unless you're a pronoun it has none [laughter] right well i said it has very limited people keep saying that it had non and it doesn't have none it just has it only has it <unk> it obligatory late on pronouns and option lay on human mountains so sir scale um that's that's grammatical number i'm talking about plural marketing but um anyway wow i'm suddenly much allow louder hum [noise] why am i doing that okay anyway so [noise] [noise] where was i going you made me want to create a spotlight now you can't hear me now can william here me hello hello out the hell happened [laughter] i don't know [laughter] so what was the last thing you hurt me say uh the <unk> you you you hurt and we i heard you say that um mandarin has no plural marking except for on pronouns and then i went on to clarify that okay clarify way well i i already did i said it they'd only hairs obligatory okay it only has obligatory tour a marking on pronouns an optional on human now so yes most of the time it has not [noise] anyway so that yeah anyway uh <unk> clear that up for people who might have the idea that there's some sort of weak plural marking around for book or something but there's not [noise] um i'm trying to what what was i i was thinking about something i was going to say something after that <unk> messed with us again uh out there um but okay well since we're on chinese we want to talk about another not uncommon issue which is the class of fires or do we need to um we've kind of covered normal classroom fire before in well i set a bunch of about numerous class fires in the very first episode right because i was the only one around at that point we think about them but yeah um i guess we can say a little bit about since that was a very long time ago and i've not been in power like clear on that but yes some languages uh mandarin in particular but i think some other language <unk> do as well and oh yeah all over all the way into like bengali isn't into european language but it has developed number class fires just because of who it's neighbors yeah so what <unk> what we're <unk> calling uh numerous class of fires um in uh in if you've taken chinese you may have heard them as measure words hurt them called measure words um they're basically depending on the next town there will be some intervening thing it's actually um people generally make it a <unk> with the class fires used with english um especially <unk> but some other now it's like when when you say a murder of crows in english for a cup of water that's actually literally the same as the the chinese <unk> so [noise] or three head of cattle or three head of cattle that's that's an even better one much better example basically you are now and fall into some class various be conceived in chinese shaping consistency is very important but there are dozens of others for county other kinds of things [noise] um let's see our our groups together so that all stick like objects when you come to them have to use this classify or you say three i forget all you think you've three those what's the one for flat stuffed john right whatever yeah um yeah and uh the languages in the <unk> the eastern and the whole chinese frog when they're have dozens and dozens of beans [noise] um they're very common in the languages of north america and central america um they tend not to be is huge um in north america as i bet is to say there is not as many of them um classical not what has less than a dozen and most of the time they just use one taped which means rock which can be used account pretty much anything okay um and um i'm going to bring back to what i was thinking about i remembered um we were talking about um time words and things and that you can think about also the year and even anything that that number that sort of identify something you are likely to have a slightly different structure so like in english whenever you have page numbers or years or something like that you often have these things where um you stop you where if you have a something just over a thousand you might have uh something like fourteen ninety two nineteen ninety nine you you you put the uh the ten hundreds of something in there um chinese does a a totally different thing where they just read out all of the digits by name rather than actually constructing a welfare number are numerous <unk> would be one flight to yeah he <unk> are one for eight to <unk> to the pain [laughter] how about any spanish yeah well it has to do with um conserve i think it has to do with conserving sort of your <unk> making make it easier to say 'cause and spanish yeah you always you say the south you would say new <unk> those <unk> those you might also just say meal <unk> but um because meal is just one syllable words not that big a deal to you it's not that big a deal to save that one so yeah i just and numbers numbers l._a. for pain but i don't know why it's just <unk> <unk> <unk> [laughter] but uh so there's so many different things and there's there's a bunch of stuff that i'm going to include in the <unk> we didn't get too but we really need to move on to talking about our future <unk> so i think you're going to stop here yeah there's there's a lot of good information some people are number fanatic so it's been pretty easy to find interesting information on line so if you if you really want to you can go to uh maybe i'll link to drink coke <unk> it's not [noise] it's not a great information resource foot you know you could have a lot of fun <unk> browsing through his his sight of numbers one through ten anyway sorry i <unk> you sound it exasperated <unk> ethics aspirin it at that <unk> you know [laughter] anyway let's move on um i am going to [noise] uh okay featured con line today yes is vanity or however you pronounce it um so this is what william <unk> which um can you explain what that is real sure um above willing i think that's it's maybe not the most appealing name but i think that's standard for describing this process [noise] basically you imagine the roman army going someplace and staying there and then this whole and in this case of poland um ah the probably the first example of this was whales anyway the roman army goes they're speaking vulgar latin and instead of turning into french they run vulgar latin through the sound changes that produced the language that's their nap so in the case of um [noise] <unk> um which imagines the romans went to whales and stayed there they went from early pro celtic too well so you have a romance language that looks like welsh [noise] in the case of than they do you have the sound changes are run through um from uh some early variety of slavic into polish yeah and uh i'm going to the the creators name i think would be fun staying there and i don't know if i'm pronouncing that right yeah i don't even try would touch anymore [laughter] <unk> <unk> and whatever anyway but uh and again we said this is a polish <unk> i always thought you could do something other than lap for this but anyway um and it's very interesting obviously as william said it's it's it's deriving it's taking latin and then deriving it based on the sound changes that produced modern polish so here we have we have all sorts of interesting sort of slavic missing this language here um i don't like the way he presents just phonology again this is another guy you another site where i don't have a nice chard here but um well it it's funny you know determine what i'm trying to find and can't find oh there it is the grand to master plan so if you want to do hardcore historical style linguistics this is the thing you need to look at 'cause the grand master plan um goes through in chunks of about half a millennium um the changes from vulgar latin too benedict yes i see here yeah when you're showing us like a historical type gown <unk> right now so it goes from latin too early northeast romance is the first one then it just keeps going and tracing the the the story of this whole this this uh branch of as fictional branch of the romance languages until you get to modern <unk> so yeah it's very interesting sort of way to go about it um a very very very detailed [laughter] right and what does does is this gives them an opportunity in like five hundred year chunks too shoo horn isn't who latin um uh slavic sound system yes and other things that will make wouldn't think of polish like nasal as vowels [noise] um certain kinds of sounds africa it's and and <unk> and so forth characteristic of polish i haven't looked at any thing have you seen any thing in here that looks like he borrowed any slavic words into this i didn't notice any <unk> i'm a little bit sad i mean this is an interesting language and there's all sorts of stuff here what there is not is a great deal of examples because the entire chapter an syntax simply says nothing here yet but said benedict part or is it syntax almost entirely foolish you might as well check out a polish syntax i found that ah <unk> ah that i mean there are <unk> but you have to go digging into to find them and they're not <unk> i'm so hard to see where where some things are coming from one thing he did which i think is a great thing to add in these <unk> is he has an automatic <unk> with basically a lot of um very common historical names the uh the <unk> uh reflexes which you would have if you have one uh i uh if you had a romance language growing up in what is now poland you you would you would see these things happen that have the the old these these common names that would've that come from latin or through latin from other sources would be there [laughter] sorry i was just noticing in his um translations among the mini translations include the translations of some spam he's gotten [laughter] <unk> well they're dead and there's one that i simply cannot read on on the air um worse is translations all he calls it ah text sample texts travelers frames phrase <unk> awesome yeah you speak for sending [noise] um [laughter] <unk> so many <unk> yes see i there are a lot ah there have been a lot of different languages that have done this with latin moving into another language i guess this is that's the <unk> definition basically according to the uh <unk> but maybe they people have done it with other languages but i've just not seen them i would love to see it happen with other languages i mean like but what other how many other languages do we have [noise] where we have first language that's that well documented overtime and the second we couldn't reasonably expect large numbers of the speakers to be roaming around to end up someplace surprising that is a difficult one because like i i always wanted somebody to do a chinese one foot chinese didn't have that uh that didn't really <unk> the same thing that happened with um with uh latin to the romance languages didn't really happen with chinese 'cause it was well it was a bunch of different languages to begin with um <unk> right and right and then where chinese <unk> moved into somewhere and change some it was off in one of the dialects moving into somewhere like taiwan one of the oh they're chinese languages moved there and then later mandarin moved there yeah i i think you could maybe get away with it with greek ancient egyptian um made me um [noise] pharaoh maker hebrew [laughter] maybe i'm happy reality to not not at all [laughter] you know what i want to do by <unk> ready now <unk> oh right oh yeah okay yeah you could you could do stuff like that i'm i'm sorry i just had to say this he has not only does he have the ring poem but he has the ring poem with audio yeah so i'm going to do that this is the you know the one rink ruled them all but he has the whole poem from the start of it so i'm going to and so one thing that i enjoy is his sound changes have reworked the latin verbs system um typically when you take latin yeah are you are instructed that there are for george you're getting an echo because i'm about to play that audio files and why don't you do that and then we can talk about the need for classes [laughter] <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> uh <unk> and more <unk> [laughter] <unk> <unk> yeah yeah [laughter] <unk> <unk> and <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah well okay i have to [noise] what did he add that echo [laughter] that's that's his own echo hold on a second [laughter] but it's still well you know to be i <unk> i so <unk> since we're talking about these <unk> here's a a real boggling or it's not really <unk> but it's it's interesting mix language that you would appreciate a bunch of roma apparently found themselves in basket country right so you have <unk> which is basically ah <unk> many words all with bask grammar [laughter] right just when you think that that <unk> that you can't imagine a stranger thing happening with natural language than you did [laughter] i had this change faster and i <unk> i need to <unk> to me <unk> apparently the bass can be found any place cod could be found [noise] which is also true the iceland or so it seems like that they would have met up and yeah kind of <unk> [laughter] <unk> yeah back to venice dick <unk> verbs so latin when you're taught in latin typically you're told that there are four verb classes mhm really there are five we'll just ignore that for now benedict because of the sound changes that the language has gone through has eight <unk> the sound changes actually created more verb dresses yes you have more to clintons to worry about my <unk> worry about because of the different some changes in environments that have happened wow that's that's pretty ethic [noise] yeah uh it <unk> <unk> no they referred to different kinds of sound changes they flipped on previous confidence ticket does one kind of change and double stick to the different kind of change okay never mind and <unk> no <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> past active participle past passive per i yeah it <unk> has that romance language verb paradigm they're um very clearly so um and he has full conjugation tables lots and lots of tables with this language so he should publish five hundred benedict verbs <unk> this this might need five hundred were a fight or um just if if if anybody cares to learn the language but yeah yeah well a lot has been done and and and i think it's like anything <unk> like you know anyone that i rented that just down [laughter] i don't know he has um the guy who invented this is more known for being involved with this low beyond ski um <unk> some whatever the the sort of the sort of <unk> <unk> that's the sort of grand unified slavic language that has been pops up from time to time um one thing i i've noticed that he has a whole bunch of propositions which takes <unk> particular cases and then one class a prep positions that can take either his direct or his giant of case uh-huh which changes the meaning it seems like sure and that's right yeah yeah or or that and i suppose i don't know <unk> what is the <unk> so <unk> yeah in in manhattan the word um in with the apple two of you know i get confused i noticed an ancient greek so forget that now but latin does the same sort of thing but when he was eighty degree 'cause then i won't lie [laughter] um with one since you've been in this weird in greek i'm trying to think of really clear example i like i'm from <unk> down <unk> type thing right to the general rule in ancient greek is with propositions of motion datas indicates location accused of indicates motion to and <unk> indicates motion away from mhm [noise] um i think in latin it's the accused of still means motion too and the <unk> has merged the functions of both separation and motion not motion uh location oh okay so but he has he he he has different cases here right and then that's again a perfectly um expected inheritance from latin yeah he's he's basically just lost a bunch of the the latin cases which are the romance languages of lost all of them shows not surprising does he have gender i can't see yes yes yes let me see if i can find a <unk> neuter okay <unk> <unk> whereas if um some truck happier anyway [laughter] you know i can't find these things and i don't know why um just um i don't know holy cow that's a lot of words yeah however i'm disappointed in the well whatever you know i like dictionaries that are big and chewy and have lots of examples and not single word definitions but well you know what that's difficult though [laughter] what can swear [laughter] i found uh jeeze [laughter] and now you again [laughter] <unk> <unk> or you would i would i really thought about that saying that it was too bad although this is gonna be fun sort of looking at these words and trying to figure out how on earth day relate to latin yeah nah nah yeah i don't know i don't know much anything of led and i know spanish very well and i can't find well uh ruth or up year or however you pronounce that break might be related to spend a <unk> which i don't know huh that's interesting i didn't know vulgar latin had a word for transvestite [laughter] <unk> for that matter this is a very funny language i liked it so that is that uh basic legs is there's a basic root for guys with america you know i mean the words in here i don't know if they get the basic um uh yeah yeah um <unk> yeah he has a bunch of um relevant uh placed names here too what a monster <unk> well this is interesting uh i i do wish that they were <unk> well again if the the guy saying i'm just doing this for fun you should learn the language than maybe to explains the lack of <unk> engineers and explained examples but there sure is a lot of examples here uh um um um i'm sure if i should say this word but uh there is a one word that i can clearly see the the uh that it came from latin because i know the the spanish at the end of the <unk> [laughter] hey literally all that happened was one the sound ended up being raised yeah see that's that's interesting about these is you never know what's going to come up the other end some words to their ancestry is perfectly clear and others are transformed <unk> <unk> well here's i say for example ah cloudy or however you pronounce that um clear sure really pretty clear where that came from you know um um probably some of these are things that he like academically ah i don't know if that's that's the actual what happened with the <unk> when it came into <unk> or whether he actually went to the trouble of free borrowing flat mm words for higher class things like a lot of real life <unk> dead right it's hard to tell um yeah but this is very very well done except for lacking examples and any syntax right except for the complete like ups in debt [laughter] i mean i i think it's an approachable example of the boggling and historical process for people who are interested in that yeah he mentions dialects but he doesn't give much detail just like the graphic stuff on it but um but the grand master plan is a good starting point for beginning historical calling or is i think yeah this this looks like a really good um i uh one thing i always have wandered about and <unk> probably the reason i haven't gotten around to doing any historical linguistics uh any diet chronic work is i'm always unsure of how many sound changes to put in her he ended up time per [noise] century or whatever yeah yeah no i agree it's tough yeah good example i mean the the six hundred to nine hundred section has a huge rave mhm changes i suppose it depends on a lot of <unk> various factors that you have to work into it so [noise] ah and anyway yeah check out when it <unk> and um the link will be on the show as usual and we're going to move on we got this little we're going to move on to feedback unless somebody has one less thing to say nope okay we got you know i think um i <unk> every time we do an episode i mentioned the voicemail line at at i have the the the voice mail line mentioned at the end of the episode and [laughter] you know a couple of weeks ago we actually did get a response on that [laughter] so anyway i have to <unk> let me switch over my ah stuff so you guys can here and we are going to listen to our first voicemail mm maybe not all of it but [noise] it was actually a buck dial so anyway oh now then we're going to say let's where we got an email from let me get this guy's name at least we can use named mathew park and this is a very very long email so i'll just posted in show notes i'm not going to read all of it but anyway he said he he in two days he listened to all our pond yes so that's that's a lot of george bianca and william to listen to i think at that time it would have been like <unk> <unk> yeah that's like <unk> almost twelve hours a day actually [laughter] so i don't know and here's here's the best part me and william both like this but he said well it may sound overly dramatic listening to you all had to convince me to to pursue a degree in linguistics i have already scout at schools buy and buy next fall i should be enrolled i think for me this is a good life choice because i may be the only person in the world who has run a red light just to get home from work in order to finish a pod cast on non configurations analogy [laughter] officially i want to encourage people not to run red lights however [laughter] yeah [laughter] it's sort of enthusiasm appreciate if you're <unk> you're not condoning speed having fish <unk> okay if your view is giving your problems with uh if if your commute is actually affecting um you your ability to listen to this uh test my suggestion is to find a way to play it in the car [laughter] like uh uh uh adaptor thing for your for your eye potter i found or whatever whatever you listen to someone who was driving home from black [laughter] 'cause i wanted to be like man put down your cell phone call me in half an hour [laughter] yeah don't do that that's not a good idea you don't do either task very well anyway um he he he says please tell bianca that i hear by swear never to use <unk> [laughter] yeah um he has a bunch of questions here which we just don't have time to hit all of them yeah we made we may have to actually write responses to these but um well we'll we'll thing right now i <unk> like <unk> yeah i let <unk> let alone and say [noise] yeah one question that william highlighted that we might say as you said you indulge in a little <unk> creating your language perhaps using your name or the names of people you like or disliked create words positive or negative [laughter] i don't really do that so much i just remember the one that i didn't do <unk> um [noise] one of my favorite <unk> or something had since fried fish named fairway handsome l l a lot of people do do that but um i'm not a big one to do it i can't really think of an example i usually get one <unk> style and example from a bit of flying i picked up from the <unk> that i use a cat which can be fun <unk> like <unk> you're the only thing i can remember doing is incorporated the roof mal in to a word that at one time meant like evil but i'm not even sure what it means right now and then my curtain original <unk> but it but uh well there's <unk> which is the dark spirits but you know [noise] yeah i don't really do this um i can't think of i mean maybe once in my history i did this but these days i just wouldn't occurred to me to to do that <unk> i mean you know however that i'm david peterson the inventor of dust rocky has a bunch of words in the language um which are based on the names of fans who have interacted with him over the years yeah i'm much over over the sort of that if i was that he has a blood pressure on that on his <unk> yeah yeah so i have another one arm and a lot of do do this it's it's not like george <unk> bianca was going to give it another example sorry it's you know she watched that to her <unk> and i use that led <unk> got <unk> steakhouse and such time to time so you know you have like a <unk> like jen idea time <unk> it's not like that okay happier that and i <unk> right time and general okay that's cool um yeah a lotta people will do these little little things uh some people do it more than others i've seen posts on the boards about people putting names into their <unk> so you know that's that's up to you whether you want to do that or not so accurate targets they're mining yes it was decided that meant <unk> yes <unk> i think that's in ah they're laying isn't it [laughter] um <unk> language anyway i like <unk> even if it's not like related kind of <unk> that you cannot remember it was okay yeah you can do that um on the other hand you know we do too much of it um i mean the words are going to be changed any way by your front object but you know i could see when you if you do too much of it people could just like start seeing nothing but at the end jokes unless you know it's really really distorted but anyway they have to lay in my mind <unk> [laughter] that's true um that may be <unk> i'm just standing in line will never happen anyway [laughter] i think we can wrap up this episode we've been talking for a while to do yes um so <unk> do you have any final wisdom oh crap i found a finance <unk> the one i think of waking up financially [laughter] we've made that episode i think the same town [laughter] anyway um and well then william known that was okay then that wrapped up episode thirty yeah all right and then like [noise] thank you for listening to the library you can find our archives ensure notes at <unk> dot com [noise] comments questions <unk> can be sent to <unk> gene male dot com [noise] please subscribed to us on high maybe leave us a five starve you while you're at it and [noise] you can also like baseball dot com slash <unk> follow us pardon twitter online or more surplus on google bus by searching foregone lingering potash [noise] part of the music was created by the bad <unk> [noise]

Tags

  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. conlang
  4. language
  5. linguistics
  6. numbers
  7. numerals
  8. Wenedyk

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 30 Numeral Systems (last edited 2017-09-06 19:30:36 by TranscriBot)