Conlangery #36: Morphosyntactic Alignment

Conlangery #36: Morphosyntactic Alignment

Published: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 05:18:09 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 hi laura <unk> to put <unk> attempt [noise] <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> no [noise] i'm george carlin [noise] ah with me across the pot here is bianca richard hello and over in the great state of wisconsin we have one <unk> hello ah so how is everybody man [noise] i just happy i haven't broken my back today back again no any movement outside when it's freezing rain it's likely to be iffy uh-huh that's true unless you're one thing i guess like er like because <unk> unless you like to watch it a bus stop to get on the bus to go anywhere close to my class fish life the same amount of walking distance walking to and from the bus stop to the classes as it was actually just straight walking i was like great i get to walk all over this ice and snow in puddles that look like that too interesting but i really five inches steep and then you step and i'm in your legs wet and then he trip and fall and then your entire body is wet and then you get <unk> have to sit in class all day [noise] um [laughter] thankfully they it happened [noise] good good okay [laughter] i just don't have my energy today <unk> rain as though the worst because basically you get a coat of ice but you can't actually see yeah yeah i did slip down some staff because of that interest my ankle which is <unk> [noise] um so we're we just started going to say one thing uh i was telling <unk> and william but uh i had actually gotten around to reading a book that i reference back in the alien languages episode where i talked about roughly about embassy town so i actually read that i'm going to put water i what'd you talking about that <unk> and music but basically short version but the main interesting thing about that language is the psycho linguistics and it's bizarre [laughter] 'cause that's what <unk> strange yes finally enough he drops linguistic terms all over the place in that book is if he's like trying to show you that he knows what he's talking about oh no he just likes words [laughter] no really he does his other books he does the same thing just lots and lots of words [laughter] well he and i would bark a lot so i mean like i knew yeah strain words words that are not in my uh in my <unk> people who aren't linguists or language and ventures will never heard the word more fussing tactic before yeah even <unk> <unk> you know neither yeah oh how cool for them i was talking to my husband them out something something about vocal folds and he's like what is that that sounds gross like it does for gross if you've ever seen them [noise] um <unk> which is why we changed the name because they're not quite like their fold like how on earth is that's like the <unk> that's just dumb [laughter] and no one cares as long as you're talking about the same thing why changed the name if it's just okay whatever [noise] [noise] oh well well um will you end up gross so that they might well william i think was trying to segue into our topic when you mentioned more fish attacks because guess what we're talking today about more fussing tactical on so more fussing tactic <unk> basically uh it's how you uh rain [laughter] you're semantic rural agent patient recipient in that so like you have there are several basic types of allied met you know everybody should know nominated accused of is like english like japanese where you're <unk> you're the subject of the <unk> different from everything else not the subject but the the object is <unk> different for everything else and subject of an in trends if since since since it's an agent uh hey trent <unk> um is mark the same and then er get of absolutely busy opposite and you have tried part tight which is subject agent and patient are all distinct but the most interesting things are when they're short of mixed together so well see when you use the phrase opposite before i was really upset because first of all there's three relationships were talking about so you can't have an opposite in that situation second when i started doing research for this episode i went into it all confident and thinking i knew things [laughter] and now i think linguists have no idea they simply have no clue really if my feeling [noise] um 'cause the closer you look at the less it all starts to make sense and hold together really that's the beauty of cases in general they found like if the definitions and they make <unk> and you know like i have no idea what the hell in daily right so the thing is we're we're going to <unk> we keep coming back to this three way distinction that we all know in love thank you [laughter] to bernard connery i think for coming up with it which is the agent like thing the subject like thing and the beep <unk> object like thing yes [noise] um and how you split those up um defined these different these different environments the problem is are we really sure that s namely subject an agent or what we think they are because especially when we get to things like the split us or flu death languages then you're like oh they're not the same [laughter] they have different the considerations come into play so [noise] so i'd come into this thinking i know <unk> not that i know less i mean i know if someone's going to talk about it flew that system i know what they're talking about but whether or not it means what we think it means to talk about this and if it's actually real thing i i now have doubts about [noise] but i mean we can spend some time going to these more detail well i guess let's let's go over it i think my summaries will probably do well for most of our listeners because we've mentioned this stuff before yeah but you know we might want to go a little bit through um ah what fluid us is and then get into the whole theoretical idea of whether any of this makes any sense or not well we're not going to resolve that issue because we're <unk> [laughter] yes [laughter] obviously with any <unk> to introduce people to some different ideas and and things that need to think about yeah i i obviously we're not gonna ever resolve that even if we were uh professionals we're not going to resolve it on a pod cash but you can introduce some of the complications that people have brought up 'cause i'm interested to hear about that too okay [noise] um [noise] so we went over the nominated accused of which we all know in lieu of everyone listening to this <unk> using a language that uses this where these subject of a transit <unk> and the subject <unk> same and the direct object or the patient [noise] um i even use the bad language the patient <unk> object is [noise] march differently so that simple there is an extremely small number of natural language is that do not mark the accused of the market the nominate tips so already we have a weirdness the normal type <unk> oh you have a simple form that's denominator you add something to get to <unk> nope they're a small number of languages do the opposite well that's it seems like the the similar occurs on the other side right because like going back to what <unk> is <unk> is not okay it's not one hundred percent the opposite but it is instead of the patient getting special marking it's the um it's the agent <unk> that gets special marketing and then right everything else is the same right and i think generally the same thing <unk> is that almost all of the <unk> the urgency of argument i don't know if they do there are <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah not your ad for that if if you <unk> you know you're wanting to argue that because of everything else and some people will call but absolutely the number do which is confusing but anyway and it's worth mentioning in passing that are going to have first of all er get of absolute of languages occurred in about a sixth one over six of the language is on the planet and there's an interesting pattern in that'd be a good case marking frequently looks the same as some other case i'm often degenerative often a lock it ever instrumental that i didn't know that <unk> system appears to be derived from something [noise] um [noise] so then we have <unk> languages which mark agent patient and subject differently um in those it's typically the subject of an inch <unk> has zero i'm working and then you have separate marking for your transit of subject and your transit indirect object that's very interesting that you have the triple distinction there [laughter] it's very unusual i think there are maybe two languages naturally occurring languages <unk> have this across the entire language [noise] it's much more likely for this to appear in part of your grammar so example we're going to be talking about australian languages and we've picked one that has tried park type marking in the first and second person pronouns oh okay i see so it's a very rare alignment it's a rare language to take over an entire language it's not that rare [noise] in the sense that it might occur in part of your language and it's this is not unusual <unk> behave differently than first and second person pronounce okay [noise] um there is naturally occurring a small number of languages that mark the subject and object of a direct <unk> and then give a different marking tutti <unk> subject apparently the <unk> the monster raving looney alignment um and when i first heard about this i thought it was fake but no there's some language and the <unk> mountains but does it does it make a whole lot of sense what do you just say it but when you just mention it i don't know it's it's like the transit it'd be of the verb is being marked on the argument somehow [noise] yeah i guess you could say that's what's going on that's that's the only way that i think it makes any sense because otherwise it's like um it is a shame we don't have more historical data on this defined it how wonder if that developed yeah in in in the park uh where are you are in the the transit fences were i would think you would want to distinguish the too so the <unk> the fact that the the both transit of argument you take the same marking is weird to me it is it is a little weird and that's why the <unk> what they do [laughter] um then we get into the <unk> s languages and their nifty in that they are kind of absolute <unk> except that um you're in transit verbs that have high agency will be marked you're you're subject she'll be marked one way and when the verb has low agency it will be <unk> um as an interactive so something like walk because it's purposeful activity will be marks age actively and something like trip 'cause it's not usually on purpose [laughter] um we'll be marked in transit differently um and the distinction there is in some languages it's completely fluid right you can change the subject of the transit a verb too in code um control as you want or in other languages it's completely fixed right walk or triple always being coated in particular way [noise] um so that's that and we should also mentioned that's not the only kind of split you can tap right there's a couple of other very common ones have thing to do with um the agency of the subject itself right right and that that tells with some stuff going to be talking about when we get into the split or get tips as well yeah [noise] and then the last of the <unk> is a little bit weird it's the austin egypt alignment and it's hard for me to even think about this is a normal kind of a line that there's something else funky going on here [noise] probably the most accessible and well documented language that does this is um [noise] to go ugh [noise] um back when i was a youngster in the nineties and first appeared on the <unk> mailing list these were very very popular and they got called trigger languages um and the <unk> unfortunately simplified the reality in the situation a little bit more than they needed to um these days people study these languages are not calling them triggers anymore they're talking about agent focus or patient focus so here's what happens you have a verb stem which may or may not ever occur by itself it will take various kinds of marking such and and the two most common are agents focus and patient focus so let's imagine that we take agent focus and in that situation the agent of the sentence we'll take particular case marking that usually gets called direct direct case mhm [noise] um and then there are different possibilities for what will happen in your remaining arguments to divert ah typically you'll have um things that looked like it was the things that look like accused him and and frankly you should just go look up <unk> and watch your head explodes and gimme fatty you someone on national t._v. sometimes had not too often in life and <unk> and it's like you know what i'm writing about it and i <unk> i have no idea what's going on [laughter] it is awful complicated and um the point is that your verb gets marked in a particular way argue focusing on the agent or you focusing on the patient okay and then you have various kinds of case marking dances that happened in addition to this marking <unk> important point being that there's one that case called the direct a case that <unk> that is pointing back to the verb saying this is the thing that i'm talking about [noise] um those are the two most common in addition to um patient focused and asian focused you might have instrument focus and lock it to focus okay so to go a lot does not have those last too okay um but other languages will have all four so choosing which to focus on is this all sort of the score stuff absolutely all of these things that we are talking about today are how you organize information for your listeners what is salient what is new um in in lots of the language to the philippines whether you use patient focused or asian focus um has a really strong implication about the definite <unk> of the definition of your arguments okay so in other words that basically they um choosing which whether it's agent focus or patient focus sort of can also have an effect on what you're talking about as your discourse focus and basically well it seems like this could sort of replace passive anti passengers and stuff um it is it is it's working on the same sort of principles yes um it used to be they would call these different verb forms active in passive which is a little bit confusing because by that terminology to pass it was the most common he occurring form [noise] um [noise] but yes absolutely all of this has to do with how we use <unk> stuff around i find the austin asian limits to kind of baffling um and it makes me it gives me comfort to know that a native speaker of such a language also finds it baffling yes remember folks native speakers don't necessarily know stuff about their language i would still expect to <unk> to be able to meditate on their own language lydia about what's going on but anybody who is linguistically or where you might expect to have more of an idea what's going on but you know right now it's like <unk> [laughter] [laughter] anyway so i'm not i'm not going to talk much about <unk> for the rest of the session just because it's something else was going on there that i don't understand um because we've talked about nominated accused of <unk> absolutely <unk> and in addition to just making this choice there implications about discourse are you going to have a passive are you gonna have an anti pass are you going to have an inverse there are different likelihood that follow from this they're not they're <unk> they're not strict rules but er get an absolute of languages are much more likely to have an anti passive nominated accused lives are much more likely to have a straight a passive but both of them can also have i mean all possibilities that makes them that are available okay um so what was i gonna say that's enough that's what i that's that's that point yes but i think we can set aside <unk> for the people who wants to do the research and figure out what exactly it is and that explain it to me yeah [laughter] then make make your cod leg with it and make it written such it's such a way that you will explain it to us so that we understand that <unk> that would be helpful um so <unk> those are the <unk> the sort of the basic forums i would even say fluent us is not really it's sort of a combination of too but yeah f. as we get more complicated we talk about well this is the first thing you have on your list is to talk about the different kinds of split or like which is right so purely er good of languages are pretty rare i think <unk> one is that right bianca potentially i don't know much better if i had like yeah no i think it has a bunch of other <unk> so i don't see it being as well now well unfair mess around her that well from what i understand the the the line when it is totally or okay i don't know i don't know that land up reading anything that said anything else um somebody correct is called <unk> dot com but [laughter] uh stand back and i guess standard spam a good job [laughter] [laughter] so much more likely than a pure aggressive language is split <unk> which means you get nominated accused eve or something in some situations and you get or give absolute <unk> circumstances where to split happens is quite variable it can happen by <unk> and it's most common for first and second person pronouns to take nominate accused of allotment and everything else or could have absolute of it might split by tense and then the circumstance is almost always i non present non the future um and non eerie alice forums so usually the past past like things end up being negative or it might split by aspect and again it's almost always the protective that ends up being near addictive um for the first one i would recommend if you have describing more <unk> tax there is a section that talks about uh where split <unk> he talks about it on an agency hierarchy which is sure pretty much the same thing as an average <unk> hierarchy and he talks about and he has basically <unk> the continuum of that first person prone to a second person burners third person pronouns all that and basically when you see that continue um basically stuff that is more record the the the <unk> the um the start of the continuum is more likely to gain the er it is you can split it and different places but it's usually just first first first and second person pronouns that those <unk> you mean nominees abusive that we'll get nominated accused of and everything else gets <unk> yeah yeah [noise] um and i probably actually should've said um agency rather than enemies either i've misspoke yeah it is um um so i am a see figures into it right right um uh <unk> i was going to say something else right as we've mentioned sometimes you might get split or give but instead of nominated accused of you might get or give split on try apartheid um that sort of stuff so there's multiple possibilities for mix of match there that uh current natural languages and i've got a link to document that was the first somebody giving a talk it's a handout but it gives lots of possibilities of these um so will include that yes yeah that's the notes and we'll look good and um it's really important to know that you might have an or give system in one part of your language and nominated accused of in another part of your language that has nothing to do with now you're verbs system might be pure nominated accused of well everything else takes <unk> yes basically in terms of your talking mainly about agreement here right right that's what i mean yeah um so a lot of times actually they the sort of in that continuum verb agreement comes even before any pronoun so basically you could have um it's possible to have verbs agree <unk> i guess but it's much more common them to for them to just agree with whatever the subject is whether they're <unk> they're pretty much right um is there anything else about that subject in particular we need to you know i don't know so according to this handout having accused of case marking but er <unk> verbal agreement does not occur are right unseen by people as of two thousand six that i flew a weird thing about this this this is true of that this is true of the the the whole agency thing and it's true um the tents aspect things is for some reason these splits off and only a career one in one direction yeah er nominate of accused of always ends up on one side and argue always on the other side for i don't it's it's interesting that's that trying to figure out why that happens <unk> theory which is outside the purview of the shoes [laughter] does it really does [laughter] um i guess you know if you want to make a ton like for aliens you could reverse one of those and see if it makes any sense at all [laughter] [noise] and then there's the other question of um are your participles for not yeah there's always that's another thing is people always talking about furtive languages we'll have <unk> activity and then at nominate of languages <unk> er get tiffany in right certain places like the the english suffix e. is often sided as sort of an <unk> thing because it can mark someone who does over that's usually <unk> or it can be mark the recipient of a bird that's usually <unk> yeah you're right i i don't know if that's exactly true but like like absentee or um or causes the yeah [laughter] you're right they go into the abs and isn't in transit of yeah so <unk> and then somebody doing something has caused his <unk> yeah right so [laughter] yeah weird mixes been matches are theoretically possible yeah but that sort of like an edge case in english there yeah um so and it's not even native english right we still that from the french yeah it's all a lot of those things will be sort of edge cases when where there's traces of it so i don't know if most called language will even get to that level of complexity honestly because it's gonna be like sort of in this little corner you have one little <unk> where it's <unk> yeah you know studying this so there's a rule in the game of go [noise] that when you start studying certain kinds of patterns you actually become a less good player for a while [laughter] and now having spend part of the week reading sort of irregularly about <unk> i'm afraid to invent any new language 'cause i'm going to get to the verbs and i will not be able to do anything [laughter] [laughter] yeah a little be overwhelmed by possibilities it gets a little wacky when you start which you know that's why i played with a fluid s. system with um i rio and i thought i was going to do more if stuff and stuff but now i think maybe the next language is that i work on i'm just gonna make um used it which is after all by far an overwhelming majority of the time the most common pattern yeah i don't know whether i'll do it or not but uh i might and yeah there's nothing wrong with just go on <unk> and making your language strange and interesting in other ways it's good at it [laughter] [laughter] we're probably going to talk more about that we're talking more about the the urban systems and the trade park i'd systems and all that in this episode because that's the whole topic so right 'cause there and most likely to be <unk> seen by especially beginning <unk> than yours um one weird thing about all this talk about <unk> is it's really really released centrally focussed around transiting verbs in transit of herbs and be what we consider the court arguments but lots and lots of languages have things like <unk> [laughter] we're just a date it fit into all these patterns does exist at all right 'cause some languages mark your direct object indirect object with the same case marketing [noise] and then you have things like russian and and various other languages that have dated experience or subjects which is the idea that <unk> around with and went completely bunkers with yeah it's <unk> or you might marketed direct object with other cases um to indicate other subtleties like finished as this is <unk> yeah it's very it's it's a lot of stuff and i wanted to <unk> bring up also a lot of people bring up this idea of data versus the sitter to have which they're incentive see i'm not <unk> well if that's is that the right do you mean ben effective see i don't know you you wrote down where the same thing that i wrote down but um the uh <unk> what i understood was that according to some people they're sort of a parallel type apology lineman where some people will use it they do to mark the indirect object the recipient of of the action whereas others will use a <unk> marker on um and i'm not sure what the good term for this is the scene where the the like if i say i gave the ball to bill some people <unk> especially some people <unk> especially mhm and this is supposedly parallel with uh the the accused of an <unk> ah so you wouldn't have to find a paper on that 'cause that's kind of interesting yeah i'm not sure [noise] but when you bring in things like um oh coon uh and with stuff like um the various various different um cases like um you know rushing and finish those examples where you have the experience or or you have the different cases where the patient that seems to break that idea a little bit to me so i'm not sure what idea but they do versus the <unk> thing i was talking about because if you end up using your data for horror arguments is well well what is it exactly uh <unk> the sense that we're talking about which is the big problem a big problem with cases anyway they they they <unk> mean different things in different languages yes i mean have you not to get away with that <unk> <unk> [laughter] <unk> [laughter] yeah it's probably [noise] frankly it's all possible [noise] this is not my <unk> go here an episode i've ever been done i think but anyway [noise] yes we're we're we're kind of <unk> around why don't we [noise] <unk> why don't you talk a little bit about this blue bird over <unk> that you <unk> oh it's just that people can read it it's a funny paper and the whole point is the guy is saying okay if you want declassified verbs <unk> you want to classify birds you might say things like they're <unk> they fly there are some birds that swim and these are all useful things to say but to say it to to to organize your birds by their feather color is not very useful so he's thinking that in his the bloomberg are good too but he is it er <unk> <unk> means we're thinking about the problem wrong in that we had all these people who are speaking western european languages it suddenly started looking at other languages and like oh this is a normal <unk> it's not a subject to the the idea of subjective solve therefore we have to invent a new thing which we're going to call the <unk> okay [noise] um so he just papers just along the thing of him raising questions about this with lots of really interesting and to to point examples about why you think something more is going on here than what we think is going on um and and just the subject just funny well sitting on gets into such a a high minded theoretical this and why don't we kind of um we're not going to be able to like really no no no you should go read the paper on your own i'm not <unk> you know i mean just because <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> i don't think that you know some of <unk> should be intimidated by the maybe the <unk> thing you know <unk> it's pretty easy to get your fans confusing yeah and it's really not it's not just add captured as well i <unk> i like to call it [noise] and you know <unk> it's really easy just not sure about your way like why did i think it's high yeah about being um getting these <unk> tactic alignment figure it out at least i know with furtive absolute of and later building of fluids system it really helps to actually make a language that does it and then run tests sentences to figure out how exactly all this stuff works and then you it it'll start to make sense yes it's kind of find that they're <unk> you know kind of works out better in that role i mean if you don't want to make your primary language do that without understanding it a little bit first make a little packs test language put like a really small hawaiian phonology it there and just make up a bunch of random words and run test that says with an argument system <unk> you don't have to do anything fancy <unk> say <unk> haven't haven't haven't heard marker and say okay this <unk> this way because of this and gallon tank and gas and and <unk> i'm going to look at bask <unk> something like that aren't there that [laughter] [laughter] the rest of your life just inventing a gigantic verb charged if you go that way so that is a little bit more complicated than just the fact that um so why don't weigh like leave people read that paper and also to sort of go a little more in depth on their own and we'll go and talk about our featured net playing this time we're doing another natural language and this one is called <unk> or ah flecks <unk> ah not uh yeah not ah ah i'd like to say um the things in the the native leigh i'm just getting a cold is darla okay [laughter] and like <unk> found all over the place [noise] well okay so this is not allowed to this is a australian language maybe five speakers left or five speakers left at the point of this document being written which was two thousand seven [noise] um we have a link to it it's a grammatical sketch that is produced by <unk> sentences taken from a dictionary oh okay [noise] right because there are so few [laughter] speakers left and at the person who wrote this um is <unk> i have to say there's a lot of fun [laughter] [laughter] okay what were you saying what were you saying again bianca <unk> oh [laughter] yeah i'm looking at the phonology uh my god there's a lot of nasal there's nasal every point of articulation yep that's there or standard very <unk> okay so what page or you're looking at 'cause this is someone's thesis page twelve is <unk> you get the first um constant chart and you get four different kernels the sanctions corn oh i don't know know crying all pretty sure my linguistics teacher said koran but <unk> <unk> in fact well that's true [laughter] [laughter] and he was belgium but <unk> but i've always had call and all that kind of around now 'cause that sounds like you know <unk> okay let's let's with the <unk> i was making this observation i guess [noise] william you've said this is very very common for uh australian languages to have <unk> <unk> <unk> all sorts of things going on there and we were lucky or i'm lucky in that <unk> has removed the lemon old series yeah oh okay orlando dental <unk> no it hasn't <unk> you're looking at is this is the standard in australia languages these giving theoretical background and then later he gives the actual um oh i see all the actual mellow inventories unpaid aged twenty three oh i'm sorry i was looking for the wrong thing no that's fine oh okay they've they've removed the okay so they don't have the <unk> yes that is that is much easier when you don't have to think what <unk> oh you are but they still have the rich affects that um yeah i love so much [noise] um i don't <unk> it does it's it's also lost the voice stops well it didn't never had them so it is normal in the writing of australian languages too for your stops to be written as though they were <unk> even though they're not this is because english people who could not hear the difference between an aspirin uneducated constant were the first people to describe these languages oh okay well yeah um so most of these languages do not in fact i have a voice voice was distinction [noise] but they're just written his other voiced okay now in this particular language it looks like they're being kind to us and not doing that um except for the j. which was to <unk> oh right stop but anyway um so like i said this language description it's coming from the analysis of sentences from a dictionary um in terms of today's topic it's relevant in this language is absolute yvonne mountains and demonstrative [noise] but it is <unk> um first and second person pronounce cry part type on per now yes now that's interesting this happened it's from time to time and australia's well it's not that unusual [laughter] <unk> in australia in australia this is quite common <unk> very good but well if it's what is common in australia is boston pretty bizarre everywhere else [laughter] i'm sorry [laughter] ah yeah it's more common for the pronoun first and second person pronouns just simply be nominated accused of yeah it was one of the set that went stripe are tight although this document does not use the phrase drive part as far as i'm able to tell but that's what it's describing okay um so is there anything else complicated about them we're christian texas um ah is it just is that as simple as it is or is there any more complex stuff that goes on their um their may well be from the state of the documentation we have probably it's gonna be hard to teach that up uh [laughter] um one of the really interesting features of the language that has nothing to do with alignment is that there are very few root verbs really most verbs are produced by using some sort of known and then <unk> okay yeah that's how we are there are seventeen who's meaning is not clear [laughter] yeah [laughter] so i didn't even notice that with <unk> and <unk> and <unk> and i'm just working and i <unk> i thought it was just the weiner nope that's confusing <unk> well and and when expects that that with a little more research you'd could go into the history and i'm guessing we'll see lots of puts in sends and takes and give very well basic meanings oh <unk> yeah that that are used for things like that [noise] um [noise] one thing i i find interesting is the what is the [noise] um there's a bunch of what is this preventing it so there's a bunch of <unk> them forming sub fixes mhm and they have dual and floral plenty of uh and the committed is a proven uh <unk> [noise] trying to think of what <unk> would be necessarily that surprised me it'd be prevented is it <unk> where you're from or where you live okay it indicates you're customary dwelling place okay um he gives examples um page forty two mhm oh okay oh nine times out of all of the <unk> [laughter] <unk> yeah yes at the fast and <unk> which which you will hate large swath of australia because that route is fairly consistent [laughter] um kind of stem forming things i like the case system um because they have a really interesting case so in this language the er <unk> and the instrumental look alike [noise] but there's a special case <unk> obscured perception that's interesting right and you know is is is kind of nifty which grade is demeaning has extended slightly so that you can see you know [noise] what's that thing hidden under the leaf right so they're obscured um but it could also indicates that something is overwhelmed by something oh okay you can say that your <unk> obscured by nervousness which is to say that you're you're overcome by nervousness or you can talk about how you are weak from sickness um so you you actually read this thing i'm just like hopping on the little things like i'm like i like the fact that it has uh first person dual inclusive nell pronouns yes so it's like you would let her i call her case yes it's on my side um around for a lot of my thoughts are on right now i'm very very uh synthetic gluten gluten sorry not crowded speaking about the <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> but i wonder what it used to fly around my mom profession had english uh probably a difference there but <unk> i'll phrase all time i guess so so i appreciate having an iceland description of this language for free but the format in could leave leaves the desire to be honest sometimes that's <unk> yes yes it does look like if [noise] the looks time our favorite <unk> federal once in a while that's a nice glass and then outside of boston mike [laughter] we don't know we know it's sad but we don't know why [laughter] well <unk> often happening is you're having some roots combined with a verbalize their you know what those mean together but you don't know what the non actually means yeah okay that's that's yeah i see there where you have ah he doesn't know uh uh <unk> means right um or <unk> <unk> it has ah somewhat elaborated ten system um you have um distinctions in past immediate and remote uh-huh [noise] they have something extremely annoying that he's calling a general aspect market but i have no idea what that means [laughter] what is the general aspect [noise] um it looks like it has an a separate set of here he's marks as meaning undoubtedly you know for making very firm assertions about things that are true which is neat uh-huh what else <unk> those <unk> those verbalize their interesting in the sense that some of them i mean you can do different transit of anything so it might be interesting for people who care about the transit authority of how they develop their vocabulary and to look it up a little bit more some neat neat issues there and it's a small vocabulary associated with it which is also worthwhile looking at yeah yeah the uh looking at vocabulary for hey i real <unk> is always a good idea if you want to avoid doing um relax us yes i think <unk> except for her but i finally <unk> that translations they have that way you know you can say like you know it's a good <unk> like you can look up online and get a bunch of different <unk> take my gosh oh <unk> yeah but what can or is not going to have this language in it so now i this is a good idea like um you can get at least <unk> otherwise you can get some interesting ideas for words that you wouldn't pick up that way though because like um there's a word uh uh <unk> cat caught me or however um that's an item that it's sticking up a cat that's useful thing guessing in the environment that sticking up to enter go inside go underneath are all one in in this language that's that's something you could steal from there [laughter] uh there's um there's a word for someone's like <unk> they basically right uh so you know you can always throw throw some of those things oh oh what <unk> what a nice adverb running away secretly [laughter] i'm just going to read this definition because very long but it's a man's term of reference for a married couple who from the speakers point of view or <unk> caught up in uh in <unk> ah relationship that is two generations apart and the woman is the speakers real father sister with the man is not his real mother brother but rarely classified uh classified sister's son that's on the end up age sixty five and yours [laughter] well this is typical of the very complex um uh [noise] can <unk> can ship systems and then we have the interaction of the skin systems of australia yeah you could figure out what exactly that means yeah outer easy [laughter] without thinking about it [laughter] um takes a little um but anyway there's a lot of information in fairly small space actually this is yeah this is this is a really nice tight quick description it's going to miss some things that are important because if it size but it's so hard to find yeah good grammar of australian languages on line so i it's really nice to have this one here it's seventy two pages all toll so if you're interested in some <unk> some some odd australian weirdness and you knew what to look at a language like that ah <unk> we'll have liked to it yeah except that of course everything about this is completely typical for language that must really um [noise] well here most of the rest of our topic it will be most interested in to look at this in terms of um to see a split or get a bus system in action uh-huh yeah is there are plenty of examples that are <unk> even a big loss thing doesn't always line up so i mean you can you can really stare at that and get a feel for how those work uh william <unk> you say yes it's completely typical for an australian language but i don't know much bottle right languages so this is all new stuffed me okay so um yeah definitely look at this uh for some ideas especially if you want to run into doing a split <unk> system or if you want to incorporate any other of the sort of things that this language has um give you you a little bit of australia flavor of your wife or even just pick and choose different things and not necessarily make yet um as australian is this languages as obviously australian yeah you know you know you don't [laughter] i don't think i would want to put three colonel distinctions in in a language [laughter] [laughter] yeah ah <unk> ah yeah and i'm definitely not um all the nasal but ah i not [laughter] i don't know some people were like it i'm not i'm not necessarily into that idea but i've always tried <unk> if you're on your way you [laughter] i have this version to getting a perfectly symmetrical constant chart that looks like um <unk> [laughter] so i sometimes put gaps in places and for a long long time i've avoided having a nasal for every call them but i'm some day soon sooner than later i'm going to have all of them [laughter] that works so and it gives you a lot of background stuff on the <unk> the whole rockland of languages it's good for that too it's good for that too it gives some charts of of uh related didn't similar languages that you can give you even more ideas than this <unk> this language grammar does yeah um so i think we can sort of move on that that's pretty much give people in the idea and then you can go and look at those grammar and get a good some good stuff out of it um what ah do we want to move on to feedback sure yeah so we got an email i'm not going to read this email because it long multiple paragraphs but it came from a guy let me get the guy's name here ah britain <unk> as the guy's name and he basically uh he says he came across our pod jess <unk> i'm very happy that people are um accidentally discovering are broadcasting is that's a good thing that people are discovery it through i've tunes um or through any any means that isn't directly from the the fortunate that that we don't like you guys at the board <unk> we like having a broader audience here um we want vast hordes of a during fans [laughter] i don't know if we're gonna go that well we're going to get that but [laughter] as long as we can get people from multiple communities from outside the communities that's that's a good thing um tiny height defying hand sure [noise] i think people will be called the <unk> uh topics of so he's says though he makes to sort of request slash <unk> points yeah about our thing he said that we don't do a whole lot of for an allergy and um you know he points out a few things like <unk> and some other um things that you can you could talk about in phonology that actually can be interesting i'm probably more interested in phonology than like william is but you know yeah it's it's sort of reflects what all of us have are interested in and none of us has really been into the phonology as [noise] you know <unk> <unk> yeah i've got quite a bit less analogy when i sing in an actual <unk> <unk> <unk> and now not in a way uh one time on my end alright yeah i understand that matters i so i don't know it just doesn't feel like we can go there the whole <unk> what <unk> yeah and it's just gonna end up being asked knowledge and that's not that <unk> they <unk> i think we should probably do episodes on on uh tactics not just building your phonology enron tori i think most of our listeners have gotten the gist of that from various episodes and probably from their own pick her ring but a little bit of talk about <unk> and how you can mix up phonics tactics to be interesting might be a good idea too so i think so i mean i i will confess that phonetics and phonology you're probably my weakest area just because they don't excite me as much as as other things [noise] um which among other things means that i avoid really complex syllable structures just 'cause i'm not used to thinking about them so frankly spending a little time on things like syllables and this and already hierarchy might be good for future languages yeah i mean we could talk a little we could do some talk about building your um building a phonology but in order to make really you know <unk> some people you know there's a few different techniques you can do with leaving interesting hole or you know you can always like throwing cliques and stuff but like catch spelling crank so she had like i need people to be interesting let's pretend correction added <unk> well i was i was saying that you can throw in cliques and stuff but it's sort of it more what you want your language the satellite than what what you want to throw in there so yeah don't just throw inflicts if there's no other reason for it but if you want to have cliques if you like the way the cliques now or are you <unk> executives fan or you've decided that you need to complete the language from alienation [laughter] then you can do that stuff um that's inside reference there anyway um and he said another thing was historical <unk> historical linguists in language chain or strong and chris yeah so and he says you know he actually mentions that there are you know some things that you can do that don't require you to trade up build the predator language in derived from it you know you can go backwards or you can do some some odd things or um he mentions putting in um strata yes which you can do that but it's it's depends on if you're building a con world around your uh <unk> i think that's where strata common because if you want to build multiple languages than you can do like one language ended up being a sub shut up for another one and stuff it's but it's sort of if you're just building one language i don't know if you really want to deal with the whole idea of strata building basically building skeletons of other languages to build your one language right i agree with that that's sort of it's <unk> it ends up being a little bit of a con worldly project together um which is not a bad thing but anyway i'll put that whole email in the show notes as i usually do and people could read it but he threatened to send more comments on other episodes as you get to them so that could be interesting i also do appreciate that he ended his email with the declaration that carthage must be destroyed yes [laughter] that's that's that's <unk> the romans already took care of yes there is no car [laughter] [laughter] okay so we can wrap this episode up um william do you have any final words wisdom [noise] not really uh <unk> on the show [laughter] [laughter] oh i am just move on right now i'm in jersey now [noise] now when you write it down [noise] through my spring [laughter] frame iran [noise] ten [noise] okay okay well i'm going to say happy [noise] thank you for listening to the library you can find are hard drives this show no <unk> dot com [noise] problem with bush's dancing chess it can be said too <unk> gene male dot com [noise] please subscribed to us on high [laughter] maybe leave us a massage therapy while you're at it and [noise] you can also like baseball dot com slash on larry follow us pardon <unk> online or [noise] or surplus on google laws by searching for calling <unk> [noise] <unk> the music was created by the <unk> [noise] so i started um reading uh embassy pound finally mhm yes ah it's weird have you read anything else by trying to <unk> no oh oh yeah he's pretty weird so here's the deal um he seems to at least know somewhat where he's coming from there seemed to be some little inconsistency basically the whole thing about the uh the um the language but is spoken by these creatures the artery k. or the host they're called the language itself the only thing remarkable about the language itself is the fact r. k. have too independent production systems that works similar pain easily so basically they have two miles that have to talk at one mhm but everything else about it is all the psycho linguistics of the house because it's humans can learn their language and they win humans learn it well it takes some some uh effort for humans to speak it they have to breed that that you have to have two people speaking basically mhm and there's there's more that goes into that but that goes into a psycho linguistics low but but humans can <unk> when you when you have two people speaking at the same time here so that you get both sides of it basically humans can do deal with it just like a normal language but for some reason there's all these little things about the <unk> that that are bizarre so they are the their language is innate basically once they reach adulthood their flown in the language and all of them speak the same language the uh second thing is it's extremely strong it has stream lee strong worth being affected the fact that they cannot lie they have to say things that they knew it'd be true oh god i hate that so much yeah except weirdly they can ask questions at least um and it's the weirdest thing of it and you find this out very early on in the book they do use figures or speech <unk> might have fours and such but they have to be literal lies that some set so the main character at one point becomes what's called assimilate and basically she has to act out the what what they would be referring to <unk> [laughter] it's [laughter] basically she become the girl who in pain ate what was given to her and basically it's implied that she was kind of beaten up and then may they they made her eat something it's weird well [laughter] you vale is all about weird [laughter] a little bit weird i mean <unk> street station is the thing that sort of yeah what's his splash onto these scene and it's pretty darn strange the weirdest thing the one thing that is absolutely unexplainable to me is that somehow the hosts are able to detect whether there is a mind behind the speech so they take completely ignore recordings right [laughter] to me and whatever yeah it's it's weird stuff [laughter] you should read it don't get to <unk> [laughter] i have a lot of reading to do so

Tags

  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. conlang
  4. language
  5. linguistics
  6. morphosyntactic alignment
  7. Ngarla

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 36 Morphosyntactic Alignment (last edited 2017-09-07 01:00:25 by TranscriBot)