Conlangery #37: Phonological Processes

Conlangery #37: Phonological Processes

Published: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 06:43:59 +0000 \

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utterance-id1 that are that are going into a role model gotten their set a goal not so not that i did my last uh shut down those that are going on i made a lot more popular [noise] welcome to <unk> language is when people who create them on george carlin was across the bond we have to be beautiful beyond richard hello and oh we're near the great lakes area here we have [noise] be intelligent william and it's low [noise] [noise] i don't know i need to make a list of africans anyway and with us we have a special guess um from over in sweden we have <unk> uh the uh see be be pretty well all right so even more restricted i am yeah [laughter] oh [laughter] so how are you guys doing you know all right just fine <unk> is your house hunting going any butter [noise] really found a house now going through the fun stuff or actually buying uh-huh oh yeah mm oh dear i don't know how many parents have bought houses ton of buying houses it's appalling i've heard it's a little bit extra painful in ah britain actually but [noise] you know [laughter] i don't think so i don't know of course i've never bought a house and that that's how i don't know [noise] that's true um i've never bought a house so i wouldn't know anything about it [laughter] same here yeah you can look forward to charity or um i've never decided if if the process leading up to what is worse than the anxiety that you have for the first year or so after owning a house where every creek every noise causes you anxiety the your house is about to fall down [laughter] i don't know well rent apple again um i can see about bad experience because i've moved into new houses before but it wasn't too much anxiety 'cause the the house where i'm where my family's in now we built new effort the other house burned down here so [noise] <unk> that doesn't make it any easier being it's all it's like you go shopping and you come back you like at my house didn't burned out [laughter] that was just saying when i lived in <unk> we're kinda in the middle <unk> well how can i don't know i think a lot of flash and every time i spend a stomach <unk> gonna fall and land on the house and then we're not going to have a house [noise] french cause some damage and then i guess maybe that massive change like a branch of care of the house man definitely check in the house but i think the biggest problem i had her for like when i went to school in new york yeah such a nice and the city and then when i moved back home i kept <unk> and i was like i don't have anyone to blame you can only john how are they coming from [laughter] uh well i have little problem adjusting you would never know if you had a haunted house in the city okay [laughter] well [laughter] i don't believe in films too i would assume so anyway i don't know if the sound is the coast to coast ghost hunters ah caused me to cease to believe in <unk> so anyway let's get down to our topic here today we are talking about funnel logical process so what exactly the phone logical process we're not just talking about straight up out of phony but just anything that changes changes the sounds of word so um there can be sort of more pro phonetic interactions and stuff going on we're going to talk about probably some things that not everybody will be um familiar with i i think most people who are listening here no about motive articulation pointed where <unk> where um manhattan place yes they're the same <unk> that's the same thing for now but that's what we call them anyway we will probably be talking about the stink features which is probably not everybody who's listening knows what the stinky features are but basically it's when you break down the men are of articulation and the point of articulation you can break those down into a bunch of binary features that you have a plus or minus on and you can probably look it up on <unk> a good idea of what what those are but a lot of times these process we're talking about involve changing a specific future i sometimes suspect that this sort of feature love dallas is exist entirely to make it easier to explain some of the things are going to be talking about today that could be true it's not necessarily like when we talk about phonemes and we talk about a lot of things in linguistics we're talking about a bottle of what's going on in your mind but nobody really knows what is going on in a speaker brain when you're talking for listen i certainly down [laughter] so yeah i'd say sometimes these models or more sort of to help people talking about it more concisely but why don't we go into our discussion little bit william you have a lot of the sort of well <unk> why don't you start you get made up a list of different process is yeah yeah i mean there's only so much you can actually change things you can get like each in something you can take some they know you can change something <unk> which technical tense ends up being like a pack of <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> change something <unk> which is <unk> ah what you mentioned the simulation with just the opposite you change it to be less like [noise] and then you have <unk> in manhattan [noise] typically to sound switch places yeah you don't really get that much going on with the smoking i don't think yeah um i think that's a pretty good um breakdown of the basic so there's some there's some sort of nuances you can you can talk about certain text <unk> category as you get from now you can get into what specifically happening like <unk> credit crap um one thing i i um well [noise] [noise] sorry this this this is what we're gonna have to i'm gonna have to do that in here [laughter] william you were <unk> you <unk> you have a bunch of notes sort of you you you were the ones who brought in the simulation here [laughter] right [laughter] um why do we give it a few examples let's start with assimilation and give it some sorts of examples of things that can happen and then we can talk about simulation 'cause those are more complex and frankly less common yeah um the main point i want to make it to start here is all of the things we're talking about can operate at different times my times i mean you can have something had happened sing chronically within the language as it stands now you could have certain kinds of changes happening and in other circumstances if you're doing historical <unk> these changes can happen overtime so what we're discussing today is useful for both historical con link and just describing a realistic language without too much history yeah well they're sort of a grey area you could think of too because <unk> <unk> what the <unk> chronic um processors or i mean all of the various fun logical processes you get in a language probably occurred must sound change somewhere [noise] uh yeah yeah yeah i'd probably sing chronic changes are the engine new die chronic changes um i'm not going to dispute that but [laughter] [noise] what we're talking has has used for coming or in many different kinds of <unk> and you can also ah you can also work with uh like uh some chronic online and just create irregularity that you can justify with the help of these promises and you don't like you don't have to do all these <unk> linguistics you can just <unk> and the store and historical change that exist only in theory <unk> getting irregularity because of it right mhm yeah that's something we mentioned in a previous shows somewhere yeah i think [noise] like they had great race get ya regular <unk> in like yet geez [laughter] um yeah if i get like you're already i know like [noise] you know regular irregularity <unk> it's almost midnight [laughter] that's fine right now like you know and i get my i._d. oh <unk> [laughter] um so assimilation um this is very is um well you mentioned the there's various things you you have in your notes here there's various different things that can assimilate and you you mentioned specifically voicing an aspiration than the point of articulation place place in manner right so and bianca alter made the same list so when we talk about simulation the first point to notice simulation can go either direction you can have progressive which means of following segment is changed like the english plural mhm you have a sibling which is either voice drawn voice depending on what comes before or you can have a real aggressive change which causes a segment before something to change and probably the classic example in english is nasal assimilation mm right like impossible yes um and and so what can assimilate <unk> voicing we mean is it a voice or voice was constant that's pretty simple um the place could assimilate and again that's nasal were your and turns into an m before any <unk> yeah well i'd say anything that's similar to a place but <unk> it happens really awesome right yeah it seems seems really you know for for nasal to do that [noise] and it happens in so many languages as well yeah it's just everywhere um yeah but you didn't get assimilation of other weird features like aspiration which english does not do but something like censor it does [noise] um in ancient greek did um you might get assimilation oath globalization you might get two <unk> in a row mhm so <unk> pretty much anything um that i ph hard either across or up and down can be selected as something to assimilate now wait a minute how did you get to inject it was in a row how do you even pronounce that uh it's pretty easy okay [laughter] i have practice double aspiration is harder um i'm trying to think of an example <unk> <unk> i used to be a little bit more easily because ancient greek does that but i've not been [noise] i don't often have occasions to pronounce ancient greek [noise] i'm out loud [laughter] kind of it's kind of a language but people speak anyway so [laughter] right right do you ever seen like the <unk> the nation as you don't have to just take one called little kitten isolate multiple things like <unk> and <unk> <unk> you know if it's not that similar economic <unk> er satin example but i doubt [noise] <unk> oh i've been <unk> [noise] and they don't have to assimilate in the same direction so there's a language in africa called no bean so which is new being a newbie in language [noise] um and they have this great system where you were plural marker um causes voicing assimilation regrets simply but plates of articulation progressive least so you get a double confident that the result so they borrow the arabic world for books so it's <unk> um <unk> the <unk> the direct object is <unk> bad huh that's interesting <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> so you get two peas instead of wouldn't be so you lost voicing but that's because of the stuff <unk> and then the suffix itself which after a bottle is k. e. has turned into [noise] mm [laughter] so i can have all sorts of exciting hanky panky going on at the morphine boundary yes and that's that's one of the the interesting thing because where these <unk> these happened is it morphine boundaries because obviously if it just hers if if you have something that's excluded from working boundaries which is another interesting thing you have things that can offer fat morphine boundaries things that can occur at work boundaries and things that occurred the boundaries um you can have sort of uh you can have sort of very sort of divergent rules [noise] and and one thing we've been not talking about so far as is everything and most of the time we care about what happens with in words but these process is going to happen across words as well [noise] often the rules are different um when you have cross word processors it typically gets called something different namely sunday which we borrowed from sanskrit for some reason mhm but it's the same the same sort of thing and um the thing with assimilation is what we've talked about so far hers when two sounds come into contact but it doesn't have to be two cents coming in nope no can have it like you you have things like vowel harmony that just the <unk> next to each other that just in the same uh fun to watch work and it can also be uh entire segments of bound mhm [noise] yep vinyl harmony is interesting um because i'm use <unk> all of us who've taken linguistics courses are always fed turkish um as the example of language with bottle harmony part excellent [noise] but that has height assimilation there other languages that have bubble harmony that operate on quite different lines i don't have them all in my brain so i'm just going to recommend you you do a little gambling but there are many kinds of of vowel harmony out there that are interesting it seemed to me under used in <unk> okay i plan on <unk> [laughter] actually high <unk> yeah well i'm kind of move on we've talked a long time on assimilation why don't we we need to get through stuff so why don't we talk a little bit about the simulation and then keep going down on a different type [noise] so we can get through that part of it okay um so this simulation is where something changes in order to be not the same as a sound that appears in the same word or is in contact with it this happens in english does um trying to think of an example [noise] really i can't think of an example in english [noise] man i mean now i can give you a swedish example if he won they store one you have the uh the old word the old word um no the old north we're we're key which is uh <unk> which comes from uh the work liquid build the root of slick which means explode and because you have an l. initially and the final l. as well um the first one simply changed into an and in ah swedish danish and norwegian so the cart swedish <unk> oh that's interesting that's <unk> yeah there's also disrupt the etymology um in swedish the work for a close it's completely different but in uh for example in a norwegian you still have the word luca which means the clothes so the connection is locked into the simulation process that's neat um there was a process in ancient greek where if a dental stop ran into another dental stop the first one turned into a cricket namely d. s. um and that process continued such that in modern greek any finals voice let's stop historically has become a voice <unk> i mean syllable final before another stop oh interesting so that's one of those those things where um sort of one historical <unk> sound changed <unk> uh leads to others that are similar to <unk> i mean two arguments could be made about the change you could just being the normal process of <unk> often happens to any constant sounded follows the bowl for long enough um but it does seem to me like it was motivated by that first step that the dentals took <unk> it could be [noise] um so i don't know what what to say about really the simulation i i kind of wonder about what the the the motive behind it is but obviously that's not something that can really say [noise] yeah there's theory about that so <unk> to that i have listed here are <unk> law which occurred in greek and sanskrit and i don't know if there's a law for what happened in katy and but <unk> law the rule is you cannot have within the same word to aspiration confidence okay one of them will have to or to or whatever you can only have one so you will lose aspiration and this causes all sorts of weird <unk> to happen on a small number of now mhm [noise] and the idea behind it is that somehow all those <unk> are <unk> difficult quote unquote to say but no one has come up with the good operational definition of difficulty in pronunciation so this could be iffy [noise] and then what happened in uh katie and and all of its children like babylonian and the syrian is they decided that you only get one free in july is constant word mhm and not only only one free in july only one free in july and or <unk> so you had caused sounds turning into k. and you're you're <unk> you're <unk> or free in july i saw all of those becoming simple or plane rather with only one left to somewhere in the word and the rules were determining which constantly got to keep it strange location or b. complex oh that's interesting so it seems like um it seems like sometimes these kind of things can be based on just phonic tactics you kind of changing or maybe they lead to on a tax exchanging [noise] i'm not sure i understand george well i'm not sure i understand either [laughter] right away it 'cause it <unk> doesn't mean apart from the changes of each side of it it's not like it's weird shapes different from arabic say okay sort of moving along uh <unk> you listed one other process which is <unk> <unk> <unk> like [noise] <unk> yeah yeah i <unk> i guess the <unk> yeah i think the <unk> this is weird for a good example i just think people are her say instead of that's <unk> yeah yeah that's um sometimes i think in that case it's sort of like a one off that makes it easier to to um to say maybe um well i don't know we've had some in english my favor are is i think crass used to be <unk> an old english mhm neither of those teams easier harder to say to me that that could be true [noise] see for me <unk> whenever i hear about it i don't know if it's very common as something that we can find they a structured <unk> for maybe it does come from [noise] structured rules but a lotta times it seems like weird ah one off like in ah i think i've mentioned before spanish um they vote the uh what were latin word uh <unk> uh became <unk> for no apparent reason spanish does seem to confuse the are now quite a lot um whole confused they metastasized <unk> ah it might it might happen more often um there isn't that cool r. l. confusion in some dialects of spanish uh particularly for final ourselves but um [noise] in some of the derived verb forms of the semitic languages you do get medicine uses excuse me <unk> um in some of the language is where you have a prefix involving a syllable stopping tea might do a dance with the first constant of the <unk> in some of the child languages huh that's so that's one one one language family had nowhere metabolisms happens at the grammatical process huh yeah that's uh it's sort of um yeah it it seems it seems kind of odd for some reason um one thing i wanted to bring up when we're bringing up all these <unk> particularly when we're talking about sin chronic um find logical processes things that uh you can see happening in the current language that are productive um sometimes there's a difference in register in fact a lot of times there's a difference in register and how these process is are are working so in a very formal like theater english or in singing sometimes you hear less um vowel reduction a little bit less dropping of certain sound um most certainly uh standard english writing does not reflect the fun logical processes that are going on and sometimes people trying to speak very formally end up river seeing some of these processes by way of spelling pronunciation sure yeah um my favorite example is french that wins song resuscitate spot what was the disappeared a few hundred years ago [laughter] that's just horrible [laughter] [noise] yeah we're [noise] my <unk> and it's pronounced in some <unk> yeah well it's a very um interesting thing that i see is this is not even just um we haven't talked about tone changes or anything but the difference between the tones in chinese in running speech and in this weird uh poetry reading register i like to call it are pretty smart and it's not even find a logical process is being flat and it's just like the standard sort of way that tones get reduced normally doesn't happen because they're pronouncing it very slowly and clearly so you always have third toned being ah what the the falling then rising rather than just being a low town which it usually isn't <unk> running speech yeah the the old the old chinese dude <unk> reciting poetry style is pretty distinctive yeah there's but there's always things whenever people are trying to quote unquote enunciate or winter people are trying to say things in some style lies manner you you're likely to reverse some but in on the other and sometimes fun logical process is ten be co opted for <unk> i know that in um spanish there's a tendency for vows to dip hung eyes across work boundaries and sometimes poets take advantage of that too <unk> their meter sure yeah like chaney [laughter] sorry i know this but this is this is something i wanted to <unk> to sort of mentioned [noise] it's it's maybe a little bit of an advance thing if you if you develop your con linked to the point that you want to think of what is the literally rude tradition of it than you can work on that [noise] anyway do we have some more points to cover here give me one second line or <unk> <unk> <unk> when i say if i'm actually <unk> um i'm not hearing uh any one man okay i'm hearing from every one except for george [laughter] maybe maybe <unk> <unk> now my my stuff right now hello now <unk> okay um one thing <unk> you said mentioned have something in your nose that i kinda want you to elaborate on basically you mention ordering a process is like the court thing when you have multiple fun logical process going on so when you have multiple <unk> choosing a holiday because occasionally if you <unk> what <unk> yeah <unk> <unk> one of my favorite things about language <unk> why is that what <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> my <unk> <unk> eating a shower huh could you repeat what you just said 'cause you broke up i have no idea <unk> <unk> okay um <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah um i remember always in my linguistics class um when my one ah phonology class the teacher used french earnings and as as an example and i don't remember the whole details but the order that in which the final <unk> constant deletion and um nasal is aviation and i think a couple of other rules for her <unk> has a has a has a major impact on the <unk> basically leads to the final outcome we're [noise] oh yeah [noise] i think <unk> i had like <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah well it's an important thing to point out in like any part of a <unk> you know anything is very important then something quite <unk> look and um different worker and will hurt their produce like drastically different <unk> uh-huh that's actually one great great stock will change it up <unk> all of a sudden has people <unk> yeah oh yeah that would be interesting um like do a voice thing changed before before <unk> change yeah that could be funny you know we didn't actually list down nasal <unk> process anywhere just 'cause it's kind of the nation brown yeah yeah it's kind of an assimilation there's there's a bunch of different fun logical smaller follow logic process is that i don't think we really have time to cover so i'm just like go on the <unk> or wherever i don't know if <unk> has a big list of um fisher but somewhere they don't someone should write that age yes but just find a big list of the the <unk> whole processes and you know just you can pick and choose for if you're the kind that wants to do really wacky <unk> stuff you can just go nuts at <unk> but definitely make sure you you figure out what were they occur and even i would suggest even like writing out the rules if you know how to write out fond logical rules in the like the equation format right now in order and then you know how to how everything happens [noise] that was one of the great things about benedict isn't it gave the sound changes from vulgar latin you benedict fi several century clumps and you knew the order of all of those changes mhm i think ordering a process is probably one of my favorite pie for getting a <unk> [noise] but that's just me has a major impact on the sound of your languages and when you do ah die of chronicle linguistics uh like when it then it's extremely important exactly what order all of the changes from up here and yes and that that <unk> that has an impact on what the final sort of order of what process is the cursing chronically will end up in two yeah um i think we've talked enough on this i don't think we can really be exhausted on fun to watch process because now there's what a show and things [noise] but <unk> should take it would take several shows to cover the wide range of possibilities yeah so why don't we move on and talk about our future con like which is <unk> so um <unk> is sort of uh what would you call it <unk> alternative history language an <unk> or something it's hey slavic playing with [noise] i would call it an ah a poster yard online yeah it is a <unk> it's <unk> sort of like northern not not quite [noise] how would we say this from the map it looks like it's sort of spokane contemporary uh locked it thrown in finland i north west in russia oh okay yeah i see i see it's sort of extends from russia also uh to use a <unk> or whatever they're used to be an actual political entity called <unk> and then it was swallowed up by russia i forget when [noise] so the idea of this language is that that political entity <unk> to the modern day yeah and like the old <unk> dialect actually persisted <unk> history god absorbed into like the russians i would continue okay so and i believe that is one of the the main <unk> uh yeah um invest a lot of an investigated <unk> old enough to <unk> to get inspiration to create this project language unlike basically the theoretical question if the ancient topic actually i'd survived what would it looked like today oh so this is basically just a big what if scenario you could say that um it's i know that it's written with uh <unk> obviously is 'cause it's slavic so close to russia so i <unk> i mean there's this weird situation where we have a huge number of these <unk> <unk> various kinds of hands slavic <unk> and stuff like that [noise] and this is yet another example of those i don't know if anyone is cultivating to use the language widely but that just have for a bunch of these sort of <unk> re imagine paying slavic languages [noise] but what's great about this it's that it is so highly documented it's just it's wonderful i think <unk> i mean yeah language she's not allowed to mature loves to be documented <unk> wow yeah yeah and he has fully fully documented grammar and even sort of ancillary things like right now i'm working at color terms and i approve of this basic colors list because it has no orange and no pain [laughter] but it does have a light and dark blue typical <unk> yeah yeah i would say that er nope broaden is probably uh it's probably the best above up uh a poster articles on line out there at least in the in the <unk> the term which is the one i'm using basically it is derived historically correct from an hour which yes um and i i wonder if you could really think of this as a different kind of <unk> because i mean yeah a uh a postal carrier but he is sort of just saying if this language had developed into the modern day this is possibly what it would have been uh and i mean it's not quite the same thing as what they can <unk> do it's um which is all another kind of wonder if scenario and it's all i think the over a lot a lot actually they belong to this category of languages who intend to they have an answer language and they apply sound gene just grow radical change it and like uh-huh how pathetic all real work scenario like all out and got into the development and and seeing what it would look like so there is no actual just <unk> it's not the entire profit uh calling him that often of course that you take a little bit of that and the thought is here we actually have a base you have some rules that you have to follow and then you just see where you can take it but even so it uh you have a lot of ah <unk> liberty yeah william you will really really like the way this um this dictionaries laid out <unk> yes because there's not so much like multiple and trees and explanation there's some etymology but mainly he has full reflection church for everything um that's okay if the word is your regular just having been slammed didn't because you've had a program that will do it that is less interesting to me actually quite like <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> yes i like the fact that i liked the way he did proposition because like he has the big explanation before hand with examples and everything and then he has the giant chart of them so you just have that for reference and yeah it it this is one of those languages that has <unk> positions and case and mix them up an interesting ways so standard injured european trick yeah yes it's typical for <unk> language it uh-huh uh the part of the language that i look uh looked into the most was actually the <unk> which i found fascinating ah what i like it but you actually have well of course uh it's natural seeing habits a um a real language so to speak um you have a lot of quirky case things going on and you have a lot of different case usage that's something that i see many call line that you have one k.'s one usage but just like in a real language no guardian had several years there just for each case and some of them are actually really cool and it has taken the old the old slavic cases and they had it merged two of them deleted one or two of them i think and then created two new one from very ending and for example no good i didn't have both the <unk> and the way he has made those to overlap it it just uh a huge amount the <unk> and what's really nice about this is it not just gigantic charts <unk> envision slavic herbs and now a lot of attention has been <unk> stuff so we had discourse markers and the <unk> <unk> and and [noise] um emphasis order even though i hate the word emphasis on all of this show's <unk> great concern for communicating with this language yes uh-huh basically i would say that you could more or less you that that uh met manual or frame or creating in natural language where people will often one to create a romance language developed from latin and so on and did this really way to do it just realistic and it's very well developed and all those hypothetical developments which are quite credible yeah although the chapter orders a bit peculiar but i don't think that matters <unk> yeah well i don't know i don't see much i guess you could have in some cases uh <unk> some things into larger parts with with chapters and them or something but um yeah just with the kurds may put <unk> positions where it is or more to the point <unk> station comes after adjectives and before pronoun syntax so that's you know doesn't matter it's a grammar yeah um but i like the fact that he has like a and appendix on colors has stefan given names and ah <unk> people's names uh he has a whole bunch of these little things um he has a little bit of dialect college she actually quite a lot of garlic all if you <unk> more than [noise] usually expect language use menu tips as as much as russia but uh i haven't seen that yeah anyway it's brilliantly documented it's really is great and well of course this is this is like a five hundred page grammar right [laughter] this this guy has worked very hard on that this uh language for a long time yeah if i'm not mistaken he actually uh printed it out the book uh-huh like just for personal use but still it's kinda nice <unk> yeah mhm yeah <unk> the dictionary does have some nice touch is like the word <unk> has to meanings one of them it's fodder and the other one is fuel or <unk> yeah so that's a that's a nice little and the analogy is from common slavic which i'm not even gonna try to pronounce it means fat or oil so that's great so i just hate seeing dictionaries with word we just single word english definition oh so he also mentioned okay i wasn't really looking too closely dictionary i was just some basic but he also did a good job of doing magic shifting is ah yep um oh okay yeah he did some interesting um i'm just looking at random we're right here ah yeah well um [noise] we can't really i all i can say is please just look please check out this grammar 'cause it's a great definitely if you're going to do and uh <unk> <unk> any time then this is a good thing to sort of model yourself after they've and um i think any <unk> something from the sheer volume of work that's here and you know get an idea of all the different things that you can actually mention when you're a documentary absolutely yeah it's definitely 'cause you have a whole lot sometimes you can think there's a whole lot more to a language than you are thinking really going on <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> not only got like <unk> <unk> kind of think action like she'll have kind of change uh having her golfing like <unk> well uh let's say a good amount of <unk> do we know how long he's been working on this uh no idea that er <unk> well ooh sorry twelve years not six years six years down the line too fascinating thanks okay on that now he probably <unk> uh search and stuff before yeah yeah because you have to remember that one making a language like that but this kind of detail and that especially a pastoral one derived from an ancient one there is a huge amount of research going on in in his case ah researching slavic languages the olden overcrowding dialect and just historical linguistics in general so he's been working on this for a while yeah <unk> yeah i would be very sad and feel like a complete slacker if he did this in a year that possible [laughter] it took me like three or four months to write um tenth of what this guy <unk> and a grammar yeah i don't think this is <unk> i'm not sure it's like <unk> like right now [laughter] well like i had pretty much nothing else to do and it to me that long so [noise] how many languages that you made before that though george ah well i had sort of work on <unk> but i'd never <unk> inner grammar yeah i think what you've done one or two then you can do them a little faster but [noise] i mean obviously david peterson produced a lot pretty quickly because he was being paid too [laughter] yeah somebody was paying him so they had deadline them expectations right um i was being paid i could probably do a work well language in about a month [noise] but not <unk> not know regret in that would that would be insane [laughter] uh so why don't we i'm kinda linked to the um the <unk> sure notes and you guys can check it out you can download the <unk> big p._d._f. grammar you could look at the awesome dictionary you can look at all the different sections online hair um but we're going to sort of wrap up our discussion there less anybody has any extra comments on ready to say nope okay everyone should look at the chapter of the discourse articles cause more <unk> mhm um and we're gonna move onto a feedback so we got an email from a guy named the sang a fisher you said i really enjoyed your episode on gender and i thought i'd contribute my own interesting it bit in the coyote <unk> language is there is a very unusual way of marking numbered that interacts with gender hi what time knowing languages typically have word genders and three numbers singular plural indoor uh every word expected number i'm thinking he'd means say every word has unexpected number yeah if the number is unexpected than the <unk> <unk> what is funny is that the <unk> is that what number is expected varies from gender gender so it wasn't gender you might have the single or an oral mark same ethnic well as a mixed gender you may have <unk> with the same ethics look up in <unk> my number marketing for more pay also [noise] those are really interesting but i don't think that what's going on there is actually gender typically linguists describe the knowledge to take the different patterns belonging to particular classes but that's basically <unk> working class it's there's no other sort of agreement that happens with those so it's not always associated with a gender you're saying i don't think the coyote languages habits grammatical interests we normally understand the term huh likely but they're uh they're usually called classes which may have are you said that we might have wanted him off in a different way okay so what were you saying that they they have now classes but they don't necessarily agree with anything [noise] <unk> [noise] it's like in latin you'll talk about you your class <unk> class too last three by us for arms that's not ginger that describes what <unk> of <unk> they take oh okay so i go to class three <unk> no one now and you saying that it [noise] i forget which one three means forming its fundamental we're just do and then when it to the unexpected mark that <unk> oh okay so they may not that that's not really a gender thing it's just the different now take different expected numbers different <unk> king or <unk> or whatever [noise] but it is an interesting sort of grammatical number thing typically you cannot tell which number is tended in this you get also marking on for huh <unk> what do you think about this and <unk> i'm one that came out that coming from like residential district shed at night yeah well what about you are you <unk> <unk> uh i'm samantha <unk> difference in the various <unk> circle genders here that over time to develop differently i think that they expect that different numbers i spent some time looking up on <unk> and i don't think any <unk> really good pattern semantics <unk> things that <unk> what number ass or other huh oh yeah i have no idea how this evolve in one of these <unk> <unk> but not all of the the <unk> everywhere so that sometimes the subjects will be this we're just sort of a learning tool in other words filming this word is singular like shaped right neat 'cause i have a hard enough time <unk> like <unk> the ending fascinating <unk> german <unk> everything [laughter] well <unk> uh plural definite in swedish yeah <unk> well oh man <unk> <unk> um no i think all now <unk> no it <unk> the <unk> yeah in the definite and then um the common gender take yeah and and the thing <unk> <unk> that's <unk> yeah i will like which is there a little confusing in this regard to plus um we have a documentation difficulty in debt a number of the communities that speak these languages don't want um white people documenting or language oh is this one of those things where we don't want other outsiders the speaker language right mhm [noise] so some of them are kind of well documented others are very probably documents which makes them <unk> thinking about where it might have developed <unk> well uh i think we can wrap up this episode um going to go to our gas first i ship you have any final words wisdom um basically uh you should take inspiration from the ground in when it comes to <unk> look at all of the various aspects of uh of the grammar and like all of the various things you can do with a single case for example that's uh that's very good advice always never never just um let your cases or your propositions or any sort of thing in your grammar just followed the default textbook definition of what does that case that mood or whatever does just you know prior to find interesting ways to use [noise] all right so <unk> well now i have to give comments pain [noise] um people trying to find a logical [laughter] [noise] [noise] now we finally [noise] <unk> [noise] <unk> revolve [laughter] okay now william [noise] i i like that people will just go oh i'm just gonna borrow they listen to the bianca divide all right and i'm going to say <unk> thank you for listening to the library you can find are hard drives <unk> dot com [noise] comments questions i'd suggestion can be said too <unk> gene male dot com [noise] please subscribed to us on high [laughter] maybe leave us a five star review while you're at it and [noise] you can also like us at <unk> dot com slash on larry follow us <unk> online or [noise] or surplus on google lost by searching for con <unk> [noise] bar scene music was created by the ban and old advisor [noise] people are shake a tie and <unk> <unk> yeah now that i'll just sit back and occasionally say something rude [laughter] that's my <unk> actually i did i took a picture and it's like a major <unk> someone's head and then i just chase l._a. [laughter] that that's your best really the city is called <unk> but all of the inhabitants called it <unk> [laughter] <unk> [laughter] okay <unk> [laughter] [noise] my parents had guy sometimes i catch myself being really slow i just now realize that the notes into google um documentary was just like personal notes without any order how fast on like change that that kind of an <unk> trial by <unk> optimum theory optimum i don't think how i was about to say optimization thirty <unk> welder furious and yet we no no i cannot say anything useful about <unk> and i would rather not get hate meals <unk> easier [laughter] it's not it's not it's like we're not professional linguists <unk> only play them on a <unk> [laughter] so that's really distracting to record that when you can hear an echo except george you didn't hear any echo now i know and cried i should've checked that out an hour ago <unk> yes it was on staring mix [laughter] so next time this happens i mean just off the show because it really media's distracting oh my god [laughter] what a weird little guy with the news rink [noise] as a script [noise] that's still a weird little guy with the nose rings yeah that's true are you looking at <unk> no not on purpose [laughter] my christian merely stopped there [laughter] they all say it scares me oh dear [laughter] i have friends who got married at his name is <unk> and her last name is <unk> and i really wanted them to hyphenated name to <unk> 'cause that really does sound like austria [laughter] hands like they should get the name changed candle <unk> oh if i find that guy <unk> like a change nope she falls in love with <unk> another week [noise] i don't even really only hit fifty two <unk> [laughter] that's just me no explanation just everybody <unk> well i just think different fish we'll we can blame beyond 'cause husband for splitting up the band [laughter] <unk> <unk> we need to get some some uh some color on this pot cast were all white people oh okay where are we now i don't know <unk> where are you not white <unk> um actually i'm barry white so [laughter] i was saying that you're gonna be from sweden it's funny who we put in in two different racial categories 'cause to me iranians don't look very different from like southern european we have an iranian guy whose parents fled the revolution who's not living in sweden [noise] doing iranian pop music [noise] filmed in l. a. [noise] volley would sort of style [noise] i just i just sort of cultural mash up [laughter] articulation sorry um did we lose somebody no oh wait maybe we did we lost <unk> okay well let's let's <unk> well sky tries to get him back um yeah i'm bi oh okay um i've no idea why the <unk> [noise]

Tags

  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. conlang
  4. language
  5. linguistics
  6. Novegradian
  7. phonological processes
  8. phonology

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 37 Phonological Processes (last edited 2017-09-07 01:46:18 by TranscriBot)