Conlangery #40: Dialects and Kunstsprachen

Conlangery #40: Dialects and Kunstsprachen

Published: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 05:02:29 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 <unk> <unk> <unk> [noise] welcome to the library in the past about starting languages and some people who create [noise] i'm george carlin with ah in ah rainy eglin [noise] is she a lovely <unk> richardson cleric [noise] been a while and now it's not raining at all [noise] <unk> [noise] well oh well and the west side in wisconsin is uh william <unk> hello and i'd like to uh now in a few months maybe in wisconsin as well or i will be in wisconsin as well because i've school go ahead yeah i was i was accepted to university of wisconsin graduate school for a masters in linguistics and um do you still have application that to other schools or were they hire on your list or <unk> um i applied to three of them ohio state rejected me and um and i haven't heard from maryland but i don't really want to go to maryland anyway [laughter] why did you apply to want to go it was a backup okay alright yeah um well i <unk> [noise] yes uh i have to figure out how i'm going to pay for it now i was going to live and everything that would be the number one reason i didn't go to grad school [laughter] uh um but you know in a few months you might see an improvement in a pod cash 'cause we might i might be able to read it so that me and william can record in the same room maybe that might be more complicated than what we're doing now actually but whatever it could be that's yeah that's that's fine i just [laughter] i don't know you know it might require more sophisticated recording technology i might require like two mikes in a mixture for that i think that just just to get harry oh no people do it do you think they do that well you could also use the double mike's for wandering around madison in finding native speakers of mom jazz newsy questions about their language <unk> examples [laughter] [laughter] okay yeah [noise] uh anyway why don't we still <unk> i'm still can curious about this anyway anyway why don't we need we need to move into our topic we have um william label this is a <unk> uh i think i guess we can if we we talk mostly about techniques it will be sort of uh a uh a practical episode but we're going to talk about dialects eh dialects and could <unk> okay [laughter] so basically once you're getting into if you're getting into dialects or doing a little bit of <unk> but um generally speaking we are going to talk to you about variations that exist in net laying sort of a dialect continue rooms and such and we're going to talk about techniques you can do to create different dialects for your <unk> if you're using if you are you have it in sort of econ world scenario where it would be widespread enough to have many different dialect so ah william why don't you take away a little bit <unk> talk to us a little bit about dialect [noise] um so just one necessarily takes us into historical linguistics but what i want to talk about today is stuff that isn't necessarily deep time historical linguistics right so you don't have to produce a part of the language of thousands of years ago and and and the norm a survey of sound changes we could just talk with a few step changes yeah um if you're doing just if you're doing dialects if they're fairly closely related young like you can go back to like a couple of hundred years right [noise] right right yeah and you don't even have to fully flush out but earlier <unk> much right this is this is gonna <unk> focussed a good deal on just vocabulary generation although i will talk about some other things that that can happen [noise] yeah um i'm also going to talk a lot about ancient greek and i apologize for that but the reason is that i know it and unlike many languages it had several dialects already going strong by the time it appeared on the scene and knows got used an interesting way so [noise] in addition to dialect were going to talk about construction which sort of covers how might these dialects be used what does it mean to a person from the north the north part of the country to hear someone from the south part of the country speak does that sound like they're the boss or does it sound like they're heck uh-huh which brian is um using dialects um blends for artistic purposes and because there's a curves all over the planet i thought that would be interesting to talk about too and i have no problem with us sticking more two languages that were the most familiar with fear because you need a lot of uh knowledge to to even know anything about the different dialects uh right right [noise] um so probably the simplest way to get dialects um into your language is to start off by producing um your vocabulary in a slightly different version of the language than you are inventing so obviously going back you know creating your language and the deciding three years later you want to die like it's harder to do um token did it but he never stopped tinkering so we know how well that worked out yeah it's possible to work backwards but it's harder than working forwards it is much harder um so <unk> some things you can do is if you're willing to use a word generator use that to generate a vocabulary with a slightly larger phonology then your target languages will have um you know put it in your dictionary but maybe you know conceal it somehow or or have it in your notes and once you've got that um you know think about some changes you find interesting um we've got some links that i found um talking about various historical languages and their changes over time so that if you see a set of changes you like you can go like oh i can work with this [noise] make sure that you put those interesting sounds into your brother language [noise] um and generate your vocabulary with those [noise] so one of my favorite things is <unk> confidence mhm like cops and claw in your <unk> and there's all sorts of fun you could do based on existing <unk> historical examples you could have one language turned the plane <unk> into uh in africa it so from caught <unk> and you could have the lakeview regular claw turn into a plane k. <unk> that's one thing or you could go crazy you could have the plane k. stay as a plane k. and you could have delayed you'll either <unk> turn into a key and they're even a few languages that turn <unk> into just a plain old w well first of those sounds like what happened in romance [noise] right exactly yeah but the other ones are interesting [laughter] the the <unk> i forget which varieties of the celtic languages that also some guy like some greek greek the situation and drink is there a big old mess [laughter] um but it doesn't have to be <unk> other kinds of labor realization can cause this sort of changed so the latin word for good bonus at an earlier but still historical period was not bonus but <unk> that is do you oh in u._s. so here again we had a <unk> just changing the stop altogether [noise] um [noise] another thing you could and that's just one example i'm i'm not even go through the list of every possible thing that can happen historically the confidence um start with a parental language that has a seven vials system and have your actual languages have five five out we'll systems so by seven bell system i mean having both low end high versions of e. and oh so eh eh oh an all or rather on oh and have those simplify in some way so they go from seven to five [noise] uh maybe having one dialect <unk> that is raise even further in other dialects you might have a lower into <unk> and and you're not into one side um she <unk> when i did my dad i i like <unk> <unk> [laughter] i like i like <unk> [noise] which are like you <unk> <unk> i wouldn't really want to go on that one that's exactly what i was going to <unk> so much fun during the <unk> 'cause they told me can most them all over the place [laughter] i i was i was that was exactly what i was going to mention is that um why why william are you so much stress thing having a bigger sounded tori than um than a smaller one because i do realize that it's easier to lose sounds than to gain them but you can gain sounds sure and i have one of the examples already had gained to sound namely if you got from k. you got chuck i'm just i'm just picking that as a starting point there's all sorts of things you can do if you can go from fewer to more and more to fewer [noise] um i have a fondness for a small <unk> sound inventory so maybe i'm biased and going smaller but whatever [noise] you know look at look at all the changes that happened to this or that language and overtime in both things can happen okay i was just curious about why we are those are just examples i happened to pick okay um you could have vowels um reduced or change in particular <unk> accented syllables um it's not uncommon for an accented syllables to raise our unexpected vowels too raises um you could have them raise the different things or um my favorite is in the history of latin we have all sorts of our addictions that happened that don't make a whole lot of sense [noise] until you realize that at one point in its history latin accented all words on the first <unk> oh wow so that's another subtle tricks you can do to your dialect is have one died like pretend like he was accented someplace else differently or even do have an accent it differently and then have your normal sort of vowel collapsed chaos that you get in in some languages [noise] with a strong stress accent uh-huh that's that that would be a good way to actually go to from fewer <unk> more files because [noise] you could have the accent uh once the accent shifts those <unk> those ah reduces <unk> might become <unk> right exactly um i know the thing you can do to generate new vowels is just to have some confidence sounds disappear h. m. w. and <unk> you know why the <unk> the the seventy levels are much hated through time and sometimes and sometimes they disappear and they leave all sorts of chaos accents and we were places and vowels can either linked finn or turn into <unk> songs their quality can change vowels that used to be separated by constantly can get squashed together somehow all sorts of fun can be had by again i'm debating [laughter] um but by the leading a week sound quote unquote leak sound whenever we want to call h <unk> um you know delete that and allow us to run into each other and you have to decide what happens is that mhm and and just a random um constant change i mentioned because it pops up all over the place in surprising to me places is a lot of languages for some reason decide they don't like pee uh-huh <unk> where it turns into h. or disappears entirely especially at the beginnings of words and i've seen this in languages like irish and <unk> why would pee turned into eight [laughter] ah i assume it goes through uh uh uh uh what do you call it a fuss stage first yeah now staged um now sound changes that occurrence <unk> stages if you put some of those in those could be interesting because different dialects should be at different stages um sure and and and <unk> you're starting to get in just straight of pure recreating different languages from a similar pressure language thing but yes um that's true i i assume that things that are still called the dialects or having enough conversation between them that i would expect changes in to be somewhat more consistent okay really radical changes i would not expect to occur only in one place and not another and that's the people's were separated and on their way to producing a new language and that's something that we haven't quite mentioned <unk> right here on the <unk> but there's a little bit of a complication in that um the line between language and dialect is a little fuzzy and [noise] yeah [noise] me yeah it could be a little bit of a tricky matter when you are creating dialects for language and um [noise] in order and uh trying to avoid the dialects diverging into different languages because there are no native speakers of these language of these languages can't do the both mutual intelligent ability test on a <unk> so you might <unk> you have to be kind a worry but unfortunately i don't think we could answer i don't think any <unk> any of the three of us has the expertise to answer [noise] um how much are how little uh changes you could do without splitting your dialect off into a different language like mark you know anyone in the wild who can tell you that state line <unk> it's a guy like and not a line right downtown no [laughter] <unk> [laughter] yeah [laughter] um but that that i'm not sure that that's really a problem uh <unk> in the sense that what does it matter if they're different enough at it you then that becomes an opportunity for um con world <unk> okay i just i just don't think it matters [laughter] be and it's hard it depends on how you would want to present your language if you are presenting it in in universe all over the world there's people who traditionally considered things will uh dialects that are actually different languages right right um um so that's really it that i feel like going through in terms of generating vocabulary and different words for your different dialects [noise] um and again i'm making the assumption that you're starting with the intention of eventually doing this okay can i know that uh the funny thing about this is in addition to away to generate dialect even if you don't feel like generating multiple dialects now starting with uh <unk> going back a little bit back in time becomes a way to generate that regular irregularity that's true too she give uh a little <unk> naturalistic touches here and there to your language um in terms of sort of found a logical stuff can i had one one little thing and this uh you you couldn't get to this through all the <unk> the through the the uh techniques that um william mention but it seems to me fairly common for one dialect who have to maintain a distinction of two fairly similar sounds well another dialect lose um like spanish uh in spain and well in the <unk> maintaining <unk> versus <unk> and then getting lost in latin america and southern spain yeah huh i'd better spain uh yeah and things like um they ah most of southern china does not print outs the um the retro flex is and and this is in a dialect of mandarin just makes it clear [laughter] not in the dialects that are actually languages sorry very confusing when you talk about uh linguistic ah by like quality of chinese uh [noise] yeah yeah there is more variation demand driven than most of us realize what you learn the first time you encounter someone from shanghai by the way tonal language is can get a lot of uh changes just because of tone changes oh goodness yeah i'm not even mentioning that you have no experience i have no experience with that so i can't speak to it [noise] [noise] [noise] um [noise] so is that it for some changes yeah why don't we move on because sound change is if you only do sound changes basically what you have is <unk> right if you want to die like do you have to do more changes yes uh yes um and and like i said we'll have ah links to various documents that have nice big tables of changes that have happened in real languages and it's pretty easy to to find more [noise] so the next thing i want to talk about <unk> morphology and here i'm inspired by um greek in particular um greek ancient greek had a bunch of different ways to form even perspective stems which in greek glamorous get called presents but whatever um there most of your standard old fashioned <unk> recognize six different ways to form in perspectives from your perspective stunts and that involves some of them involved <unk> some involved in fixes some involved <unk> um some involve various combinations of those [noise] the important thing here is that different dialects chose different ways to form the him productive step so in the greek most of us learn in college first the word for to leave late ball um is is simple uh <unk> change where as <unk> her dialect use them in fix <unk> giving the present tense at the same verb lint pond though so late paul and bomb them all so that's pretty significant change simply by deciding that this damn will go one way and one dialect and we'll go a different way in a different dialect this assuming you have multiple ways to form different kinds of stabs and that you do not have it perfectly regular [noise] this is how you make a verb this is how you make it in perspective [noise] um so there's this sort of trick might not work is obviously well in in gluten in an igloo dating language where you just chain suffix is together and there's not much synthesis going on yeah but you're <unk> it'd be different [noise] right you might have different classes that operate in some other way than this [noise] um i'm thinking of the languages of australia where the final confident determines things but you might you know change set up uh in some languages pronouns or decline to differently from downs but there might be borrowing back and forth a pronoun might for <unk> obliterate ing a distinction might borrow the <unk> for the jury of and the same sound change might require unknowns to borrow it from the <unk> different dialects and make different choices about what to do in those circumstances uh-huh [laughter] um and again assuming you've had some irregularities develop some dialects might preserve those irregularities in others might smooth them out um [noise] i'm trying to think is there anything else for these i mean the principal i'm i'm just mentioning principles that can be applied um with a light hand or with great big gobs of dialects diversity um well the certainly the are losing out irregularities is a good example like in english and it's not even necessarily dialect it may just depend on each individual you like which were which verbs are strong verbs <unk> sometimes right um so you can have a lot of fun if you have common irregular paradigm or something [noise] um what i love in english is that we have some dialects have decided to take once regular week firms and make them eat regular strong firms [laughter] yes that is a really funny thing that happened that night tightened it snack exactly exact uh-huh had and gets generalized i'm like well this must be it [laughter] it's like an allergy working in the wrong direction yeah um like it uh that would be a fun thing to have happened in the language may be one one uh dialect starts moving more towards using the uh the the ah <unk> change it yeah the blood trains there's one leans more court doing the uh the regular suffix is you know english might kind of scared and i could be wrong on now but i feel like <unk> i had that yeah you get <unk> as i say <unk> <unk> <unk> whatever it's called the <unk> like okay well <unk> <unk> if i had to pass the meaning shell and that way <unk> <unk> i have heard that i have heard that the past <unk> is used for different things in the u._s. and britain but uh i it's like one of them will be for um something you some things that do you continue to do to the president's day and one of them will be and and one of them will be um um something that you have you did a long time ago and brown doesn't kind of it's a bunch of <unk> i'm not <unk> it's <unk> like english i don't really remember exactly how it is but somehow the but i have heard that there is some usage of the past perfect and the um and the simple passed in english that has the opposite distinction in one guy like from the other uh <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> i <unk> i'm in now if it keeps going good just completely wiped the everyone out and you know a couple of <unk> and <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah well yeah it it honestly that sounds to me like an area effect that britain is getting ah affected by tendencies in german and french <unk> anyway so again this is a good example uh another thing i wanted to mention that similar to this is lots and lots of verbs in classical greek took mediocre passive endings but we're <unk> dramatically active right they usually have direct objects and all that stuff this can be a diagnostic for dialects one word might be just boring active in one dialect and might be b._d._o. passive another dialect with identical meetings and interesting yeah [noise] um so that takes us onto the mexican unless we can think of any more morphology things not so much syntax doesn't really change that much <unk> along that well it can and and i want to talk about one or two things here at the end okay well um i don't know because you're morphology it's going to have those little edge cases where you know the uh the flattening regularity is is different than the uh like <unk> like we mentioned or certain forms are used for different purposes and different places in different dialects sure when i talk about the flattening of irregularities i want to be clear that one language might smooth out an irregularity in one part embrace irregularity elsewhere and <unk> you know different dialects will choose different things just moved down well yeah yeah that that i i would say definitely in any case where you have irregularities and there is and and and and a logical schmoozing oh the irregularities um you have an opportunity for different dialects <unk> making different choices and you should take that opportunity if you're doing dialects at all yeah um but other than that i would say i don't know i don't think we have because you're not gonna radically changed more quality for for um for a dialect is going to be here or there unless you're actually doing a different language right right [noise] um so in terms of the <unk> um simply have different roots for a common word uh-huh [noise] um and again the ancient greek situation um most of the greek word <unk> world had one route to say that you wanted one they had two routes to say that you wanted something uh-huh um but for some reason in the dark speaking areas they had that much simpler word [laughter] and they use that um if you're feeling really um up to a challenge you can have identical roots being used in different ways in different dialects uh have them take um slightly different um senses [noise] uh i <unk> i hope that <unk> oh sure really <unk> nights i saw was like an afternoon <unk> now it's just <unk> that's what they teach here in the movies for the <unk> or something now it's just <unk> oh you want to come up with a key now that's a <unk> or something like <unk> why stop by i don't like the way that that that's not a <unk> anyway [laughter] anyway that's an exam and we all know abby like pecan found then you can see how it <unk> yeah what we think tee time is and i <unk> <unk> i think is probably next to the the actual sound changes like scott is probably the easiest thing if not easier than even sound sound changes to actually do um because like everybody knows about lexical differences <unk> that you can look at um i sort of losses war um pop coke and soda is it uh-huh uh-huh on in in u._s. dialects and get an idea for how um sort of the spread of different um uh different words for things will give you will um hugely different dialects or oh you determine which dialect is beans but yeah it's uh i i'm not focusing too much <unk> because that's the most easy an obvious in many ways just like you're saying that the use different words for the same thing [laughter] i'll have to say for the time i lived in texas when i first moved there the use of the word coke to describe any carbonated beverages genuinely confusing to me [laughter] well <unk> <unk> <unk> we're we're a pop zone yeah <unk> <unk> uh yeah there's actually a wisconsin uh we have some dialects and wisconsin and there's a diagnostic for somebody from milwaukee isn't that did they call a water fountain above blur [laughter] oh that's funny and they have in fact you could buy tee shirts that make fun of that anyway so [laughter] yeah well you can find you <unk> you can you can hear a bunch of them if you travel around even within your own country but too and and to to any other country that speak the same language than you will find these things and like we're talking about fairly low frequency words but even if it doesn't have to be a low frequency words it could be a high frequency words uh northern and southern china use a different word for to speak and the north as well in the south yeah oh i didn't know that <unk> had different kinds of <unk> <unk> i think he already had that now that i said that um yeah like <unk> the whole past tense it's not i <unk> i <unk> [laughter] [laughter] yeah um sure i mean [noise] for those listeners from the united states probably have a weird ah relationship of dialects because all things considered the language the united states is remarkably <unk> over a huge area of space [noise] whereas most of europe has a lot of i mean you just deal with <unk> all the time yes no if you move out of your home town basically yeah encounter a different manner of speaking [noise] which is why um news programs annoying lily subtitled english speakers that i can understand perfectly [laughter] yeah [laughter] um so ah we already talked about um if you have made the effort to produce discourse particles they might operate in slightly different ways in different dialects um and we talked a few weeks ago about evidence geology again the precise use of those might be slightly different from dialects the dialect or they might the evidence was might take different forms yeah just be aware of it when uh well as your building um probably building your <unk> language and also as you build into like whatever your main language is whether it's the standard language or um uh a particular dialect that new focusing on <unk> aware of all these various things that you can switch up when you do to switch when you work on different dialect actually like when i've done a little bit of style like profane everything i've changed to be a <unk> something i've thought about <unk> i kind of <unk> or how to <unk> all of the leftovers stuff that i really liked if they would end up getting my dad likes just 'cause i wanted to have them but they don't quite make it so they're like renee south dakota [laughter] don't go too far with that because you may end up with like a a a and a clue negative standard language has a policeman credit dialect <unk> no no apparent route you know it's not like like if i want a cat a year and i and i decided in one case <unk> gee i decided to get rid of fifty and as a place that was basically but say you went to a year here last stop <unk> um <unk> basically just a <unk> and then it kind of <unk> even now it pattern gas <unk> stop even <unk> oh yeah yeah yeah [noise] um [noise] so that's the just the the tip of the iceberg or things you can do to make your dialect um then the next question is what do those dialects mean to your speakers i'm making any assumption that anyone coming in and also creating dialects is doing con worldly to some degree i don't think that's an unreasonable assumption well yeah [noise] so we've got people and what did it was different dialects sounds like two different people so [noise] the interesting situation for greek is and and this has happened in different parts of the world we can talk about later each regional dialect was associated with a particular genre of literature not all of them but sort of in the in the broadest fear you know coral song in poetry was dory and ethic was handled by the ironic dialect and the a._o._l. lick dialects um did you know [noise] uh lyrics and our first appearance of greek literature is homer he is already using a completely artificial mix of dialects no one's spoke the language of homer you was mostly i on nick but he borrowed things from other dialects um which had their own christies and their own implications [noise] why did he do this one because it made the meter easier in some situations second for historical reasons we have reason to believe we have these different stories from the greek world all coming together with bringing along dialect stuff with them [noise] so that's a simple example and it set the tone for olive greek literature right from then on if you wrote something vaguely epic like you used <unk> language and all the weird die like mixed the same thing happened to um polly which is the language that a lot of buddhist stuff is in if you look at a decline shunned table you see you know a bunch of different ways to form stay the data that's very artificial and what really happened is a bunch of dialects had material about the buddha and we'd all came together you got this mess of the end where you have this um art language that is used that doesn't reflect how anyone ever spoke um but brings in the different dialects to all blend together and it looks like something similar was happening in classical not where he was [noise] mostly the language spoken by a certain city but for various reasons different bits of grammar were stolen from different dialects because of um cultural reasons so i just wanted to mention construction and these aren't languages as things that in real languages sometimes dialects get pulled back together again and weird and artificial ways so that's my lesson on that [noise] yeah that kind of thing can occur and all sorts of different ways um so in our own in english you see a little bit of uh <unk> rock and kind of stuff and that apparently almost any fantasy movie or um t._v. show or really anything where people are speaking english but not really english almost always british dialects that there should be [noise] right right yeah well if you look at uh came of throws everybody's using they're using various british dialects is that because all of the actors are british mm i don't think so [laughter] i'm pretty [noise] um no well and uh lord of the rings everybody's speaking with uh a particular british <unk> dialect now i know there were american actors and that that were my <unk> yeah the english speaking role right it's it's the use of a dialect for adding some patina of culture yes um and that takes a straight into sort of calm <unk> socio linguistics right whose whose dialect has prestige who's doesn't a couple things i know and um chinese i was trying to look this up so i wouldn't lie but i'm not certain so but so i'm not certain of this but i have heard at one time that a lot of chinese opera music is actually in suit twenties because uh there were some famous troops that came from such fun right um and if you want to go somewhere a little bit more modern there was a time i think in like the nineties when a lot of taiwanese singers were popular throughout the the <unk> world and time when he singers are still popular and for a while pop musicians in mainland china would affect the <unk> time when he's accent to the point where at some point uh some some chinese one uh one of the censor ah organizations caught wind of it and band people on <unk> t._v. from affect being a different accent [noise] right um in the ah arab speaking world um many many pop singers try to sound like different cairo [laughter] [noise] um 'cause that's the center of movie making and and the music industry um [noise] so i just wanted to to mention uh one situation in invented languages is some buddy i think i think hungarians were involved [noise] created a fake archaic at supper onto [laughter] 'cause they wanted to be able to use it for literary purposes right if you're right uh uh if you have a novel and someone uses a latin phrase how do you deal with that so they got together and produce very complicated um um uh <unk> which is supposed to be this this archaic [laughter] uh as bronco oh no it was created by yeah i don't know who this guy is um [noise] so that's funny [laughter] so wait and then and <unk> yeah go ahead so how how exactly do they they they think of it is our kick that they tried to add things that they thought made it sound like an older language what show it would they just <unk> this is the thing that we're telling people not to do you have aspirin too so we're going to roll it back in time so they made some sound changes some spelling changes they um added to cases [noise] they did a judge of appear in addition to the accused of [noise] um so yes obviously it it looks archaic compared to other languages of <unk> you know europe in romance languages right they lost their cases so these people put them back into his project [laughter] just funny because <unk> obviously not naturally oh <unk> [laughter] right the fact that you would have any concept of what it would sound like our <unk> weird but again i said it's it's for for literary purses and obviously as bronco people have too much fun playing with language so the temptation was there and could not be [noise] stepped away from uh <unk> which takes it takes its way back in time um we can recognize a separate dialect um typically called m._s._l. which is used by women characters when they're speaking in stories stories and in certain kinds of religious literature now uh are we certain that this wasn't just the the uh sort of uh female dialect assume marion because i know that um probably right so this is not unusual for some languages too have markedly distinct forms of speaking for men and women yeah i mean um it doesn't <unk> the current well different people think different things the thought is is that it probably represents originally original dialect obscene marion because uh katie and borrowed a bunch of words in the <unk> forum instead of the <unk> okay so it was thought that there were certainly plenty of people not just women i mean i was flying because i don't know the uh the uh anything about uh the the culture at the time if most of the writers were male they may just have picked a dialect that they thought sounded like what woman sounded like and it made maybe have nothing to do with what no no no no no no that that's very unlikely evidence suggests that there was a real dialect it's under this way okay how it got picked for some reason to be used by women it it it's a complicated issue it's not clear which part came first [noise] was it a religious um choice because a certain region had produced the hymns of the goddess that everyone kept using and therefore that came to be associated with god has has been women or something else going on it's it's not entirely clear and wants to marry and um [noise] the lack of evidence inspires people too outlandish theories [laughter] but the fact that i miss all forms were regularly borrowed into surrounding languages suggested it was not just something made up by <unk> okay so it wasn't made up but we're not sure exactly what was in the first place right it has the characteristics of a regional dialects there's some slightly different words um and certain characteristics on changes mhm and i have a link to that in people who are interested can go read okay well i don't know do we really have anything else to say on the on the subject of <unk> in particular or by like some general i don't think so i think i think we've covered it pretty well we talked for a very long time on this stuff with 'em [laughter] i think i'm gonna say at the end this is another one where do you you're in research [noise] because we can't possibly we've talked for oh <unk> longer than we usually do i think four main topics and we still can't have um we still can't you know cover this thing exhaustive like uh hopefully we've given you a whole lot of useful information but [laughter] look stuff up ah look at languages that you're interested and look at the different dialect will variations you know um even just think of what is in your native language i know that everybody hates uh people cloning their native language but you can get some ideas if you know a little bit about dialects of your own life especially <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> if you're actually noticed that and and since most of our audience is in the u. s. look outside the u._s. a little bit because as well you mentioned uh u._s. english is remarkably much necessarily be um to get some stuff there but it probably would be better for you to look at uh british english australian english uh indian english if you <unk> fascinating yeah it would be a great one especially if you want to figure out um how to work with a language that has strong substrate affects um 'cause they have that has a lot of influence from languages in india right right oh yeah a lot of hindi and such um but just just look around for a whole lot of in a whole lot of different places and find stuff that you want to do and you know and if you're a uh a fuss that <unk> guy you might want to you know food tweak this sound each language to fit its role in this society too um but anyway since we can't talk too much more about this we're gonna move onto our future con lying which is i don't want ah so i don't mind it out on the main i have a feeling that this is not a real name <unk> <unk> yeah i have no idea i tend to like get my <unk> my saw run out of them uh [laughter] uh <unk> [noise] uh i'm responsible for us picking this language it is at b. domain blast so poop polices lots of police this dot net which has existed for a long time on this language has not been updated in more than ten years just just just follower link we're not gonna know spell that on on me or no no competition it's father's like the the funky thinking about this is that even though the site doesn't change much someone is obviously still paying for the web surfer and the domain [laughter] yeah those certainly an old site [laughter] although it's i think it it looks pretty good for an old side [noise] yeah considering that age it doesn't look if they hit why such a flight i got really annoyed when <unk> when i was like why for selling <unk> then i looked down and i saw like the last updated with like two thousand and one <unk> january i mean [noise] <unk> [laughter] [noise] um i hate that feel okay if something terrible website sometimes it's not the not the worst [laughter] no it's pretty good um [noise] the reason i added this and the language is not very well defined which is unfortunate um but he made a bunch of interesting phone ethics choices um and where he gives you grammar and they're interesting grammar choices so that's why i added this to the list okay what would be things i'm looking right now at weaken shrunk costs nuts here [laughter] um okay um basically looks like there's just it's sort of ah conditions on environment of course yeah <unk> that's an interesting thing sort of uh it's it looks like he he did that without well some of these looked like standard lynn forums son of of some of them not as much i especially like what happens to gee when it's week that is between vowels it turns into a w. yes that's that's really interesting one i like that um i like when when this crazy stuff like um and he has okay i can't really is renting system is kind of ridiculous [noise] yeah i don't look at that i'd forgotten about that even existed until i was looking this over again today um he has a simple three way by whole system um which come in long or short varieties and the language has toned but as a simple tone system yeah um [noise] [noise] and there is a complex interaction between tone and stress but i've never um bother to sit down to decipher all of that okay wait okay he has direct oblique in terms of cases so what does that exactly not finding much there's there's problems with um the fact that uh some of this stuff is kind of [noise] bars and the documentation and yeah yeah you can't take out some things okay 'cause i keep <unk> now <unk> around he decided near millennium don't feel like they're <unk> [laughter] i said why keep it on line [laughter] no idea maybe <unk> [noise] she does have strong and week verb [laughter] um and it looks like the <unk> still have sort of the same distinctions but it's it's like ah there's more like zero more <unk> ah yeah <unk> yeah <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> i don't remember that name action tend to file i don't remember oh that's um that's an issue with his terminology i think he calls um well william said it's um <unk> it was uh like this nation but actually doubled vowels <unk> um you know exist uh both <unk> varieties we're a total of six phonemes the problem has that that's a terminology issue um i don't think could actually be <unk> um <unk> yeah we've we've had somebody come planning on the show before tense and likes lax don't really mean a whole lot [noise] sure they do you just have to find them right and that's <unk> i don't mean anything can beat out now there's there's some there's some uh phonology um focus people um that insist that ten cent lax or just like ah williams emphasis nobody is exactly sure what it means but ah <unk> yeah i <unk> i think it's it's a term you could define but i'm not sure he doesn't really define it for us now you get a lot of <unk> it's like having fish but i mean something back ten times a description <unk> um like the sunday sunday kurt <unk> exactly sure labeled as <unk> <unk> and that changes or something but i'm just like not exactly sure where his son the sunday applies and what what changes what <unk> what direction that change goes in uh i'm lost so there's it's this is not um the <unk> ah [noise] i i'm sorry to be disparaging so much it's just that <unk> <unk> it's it has great ideas and it it's just that uh i need to know what the heck you're talking about right [noise] so the reason i mentioned this language is because i think there are <unk> the germ the colonel of some really interesting ideas that other people might want to play with um it is not the language anyone is going to learn 'cause it's just far too under defined i think this this is like his notes for starting language [noise] they're awfully well laid out for notes but yes yeah well it feels like the the content of it not so much the way out what the content of it seems like somebody's initial notes and it's written menace such a way that you think that he was just writing down stuff that he wanted to remember and he left out some things that he that that he has in his brain but the rest of us have no idea what he's talking about so ah yeah that's the way it is it's not a polish finished grammer it's uh it's <unk> yeah yeah <unk> on how the <unk> [laughter] [laughter] um [noise] the the verb classes are sort of interesting it's some kind of mix of ab loud and arabic mhm um my favorite <unk> yeah yeah and then the week firms are boring uh <unk> we're not exactly uh there are some times required by rules syntax but he doesn't tell me what those rules are and what these auxiliary verb means what she does give us four of them what's nice is that they're not perfectly regular <unk> that is nice they're kind of uh like to um to make is fund it has a past form and then the other two forms are related that's nifty uh-huh yes has some some pollution going on which will happen when you have <unk> probably because <unk> use all the time so they collect irregularities um [noise] but finally in some of the leader chapters he has example sentences which are nicely laid out not a huge number but [noise] they give you the the possibilities of this language is cross referencing clinton clinton which he actually does with things that they do but not a whole lot er yeah declared <unk> okay here's something that i don't like when people do uh <unk> so he has <unk> um but his example sentence they only example sentence under declared senses <unk> is translated the fact that the chief liked it surprised me i think that's a great example but <unk> yeah it's a great example but it doesn't belong here and it if it if it whereas in this declared of sentences thing it should be like example number five an example number one should be like i ate a grape [laughter] like a cat eight <unk> because when you when you're illustrate you're these examples are supposed to illustrate something so you wanna find that very simple simple a sentence you can make for your first example that illustrates the points oh no yeah no i agree sorry that was that ball and then they're a banker right yeah sorry to to rant about it but i i just i i i like it when people have good examples annoys me when people have uh examples that aren't necessary [noise] i just think that example was trying to cover too many things yeah [noise] see he has relative relative clauses oh he has several examples of his relatives clauses yes uh it looks like he uses a particle <unk> and or or <unk> sorry that's me with english and <unk> and the <unk> um i'll uh so um yeah you you just hated it just has a particle or relative relative visor that's followed by the the the clause and the claws has to have a result of pronouncing some <unk> oh yeah <unk> yeah that's right so this these are not get clauses are yes which that's you know minor league interesting it's not it's not going too far out there but it's yeah [noise] i'm <unk> thought about it i'm sure i wish i could figure out what language inspired this cause some parts of it makes me think somebody had a glancing encounter with um some <unk> language but then other things are very puzzling oh they are aren't they i mean i just don't understand where they came from um he's got a section on <unk> and the word emphasis but the fact that it was taught about makes me happy mhm [noise] do you do oh yeah there's the sentence shortage that you're just in l._a. [noise] um ooh nice long list of middle verbs anyway like i said that the language has possibilities and you know maybe someone can come take a look at it and and sort of take the possibility there and run with it in their own direction yeah yeah take this this language [laughter] i would love to think that this guy might listen to this pug cast and decide <unk> maybe i should actually start developing this language just in and make it better but yeah that that that's a <unk> at the bottom of the page there are one too there are six languages it listed which have no links uh-huh so clearly has lots of languages yeah see them more but you know i don't know if you listen to us but yeah yeah we'll have to <unk> by [noise] everyone just us but um i think <unk> it doesn't have to be him to do this if somebody took this and took some of these ideas with different words and flush them out you can get pretty good luck on line with it yeah no there's a lot like i said there's much uh interesting possibility here even though i never finished yeah which i'm not i'm not advocating plagiarism i'm just saying but uh there's interesting ideas in here you could get some ideas and language here which is what we this is our goal and <unk> with the <unk> is sure you languages that you could be inspired by so um and i've been hoping for more than ten years that more would appear on this one site but yeah yeah [laughter] well we'll we'll uh maybe we should bookmark it and keep an eye on [laughter] yeah i've been doing that for more than ten years [laughter] [laughter] well if this <unk> tests lasts for another for for ten years then all of the by then [laughter] hey hey hey [laughter] hey will be fifteen ten years yeah i don't think about ho there'll be in ten years [laughter] [laughter] ah my dad will be seventy anyway um yeah i think that's about all we can say about that we can point out a few interesting things but in the end i don't know how anything works in that language so you know have a few things work but <unk> yeah yeah um so why don't we move on uh we don't have nobody has been emailing us send us emails please [laughter] um [noise] we had been getting comments on the site though and we like those too um carson becker um like this to a <unk> that uses metastasized as um as part of a scent cindy process neat i um we'll have to maybe we'll add this um language to our um list copper and future but sure will um will take a look at that um there was a somebody um oh we already talked about the <unk> in common than we did that last episode okay well that was the yeah we need more <unk> and we need more emails <unk> dot com is the email <unk> yes you can like there's so many <unk> which are fun for lunch talked [noise] um we we want to know that you liked the show and also if you like to show you can get on a <unk> give us a <unk> and ah give us a nice rating on that uh but yeah um we like to know if people like the show and if uh if you have anything to add to this we don't know everything also i like my my things for the topless show but both of them and you know email us for corrections too because those those are ah important too i think we had a couple of corrections recently that people had comments of when i'm lying [laughter] not uh [noise] yeah if i said something wrong about the to the the that the chinese so tell me that i'm wrong 'cause uh i wasn't exactly sure what i'm saying anyway um so i think we'll just wrap up this episode and said hey ah <unk> do you have any words it was you know i've gone back into my <unk> [laughter] right up a list of um and then when she comes um what okay you still are you still working on getting the house and that well actually get a job <unk> house [laughter] i think they're a nice life than sit behind this computer and think of <unk> that people on a pot [laughter] all right well and uh in in any case ah william do you have any wisdom yeah wind hurts do macho stretching it just looks ridiculous [laughter] <unk> <unk> and <unk> most of all [noise] should not be doing much <unk> [laughter] i'll just leave it at that [laughter] i have i have one final word of ah no i have i have with that i wouldn't want to say but i forgot it [noise] you need to write you definitely do well eh eh eh it was something that um passed over in the dialect discussion but i forgot to say but if i think of it i'll i'll maybe i'll edited in but uh i <unk> [laughter] [noise] in any case i'm going to say happy hotline [noise] thank you for listening to <unk> you can find our archives ensure notes at <unk> dot com [noise] comments question said suggestions can be said to con lying or eat at gene male dot com [noise] please subscribed to us on <unk> and maybe leave us a five star review while you're at it [noise] you can also like us at <unk> dot com slash <unk> follow us on on <unk> on larry worst surplus on google plus by searching for con <unk> cash [noise] bar theme music was created by the band and all the vice [noise] [noise] oh man i don't know how to make see that's one hundred percent i don't know you have never been to wisconsin and that's <unk> stan s. t. hairs god i love spanish jesus god at a fast go okay you should get a winter jackets [laughter] but it unless you are planning to live in the suburbs and walk to school <unk> might be overkill yeah yeah that's a little weird although i remember [laughter] in a lab i work a lab i worked in when i was an undergraduate we had an indian graduate student working in the lab who's already where it gets ski mask in october and caffeine productive for that at all yeah most of the toddler around here no <unk> no it doesn't find you must have holiday coming down well now i say <unk> it stuck around outweigh flaw walk incorrect see to me missed is an extremely light rain all right so i've been having problems with my computer and i was doing research i realize that the damn thing is four years old so i suppose it's not surprising that it might start misbehaving eventually [laughter] can you tell my husband that 'cause my computer <unk> now and <unk> my my my my life has been consumed with um building giant things in mind craft recently oh no you've been sucked into mind crafting [laughter] well i <unk> i don't know why [laughter] i find it was like ten <unk> past ally is isn't you that i'm here in the nose breathing from <unk> [laughter] i don't know if you'd asked you not stop on me now a couple of weeks ago my alibi <unk> like <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> i teach english now like you <unk> yeah i know yeah i heard it well actually i'm going to be going to grad school so yeah i know and chinese and cutting are chinese from condition some of the <unk> are pretty sketchy though who's the what's what's the ban uh cramped school but um so that the priest says like oh well rome is very far away [laughter] hey can we stuffed <unk> can you move your mike down allow this <unk> i was like <unk> you're breathing from your nose or yeah [noise] <unk> it's going to sneeze so that might <unk> okay [laughter] so <unk> yeah um [noise] uh hold on guys <unk> funny okay william am i still la la la now okay alright yeah he has some times has a little slightly lower really faint echo that doesn't really bother me but i don't well they should have a <unk> okay [laughter] all stick solved okay well um um <unk> getting echo let's stop for a sec yeah i'm i actually work on me and him now hold on let me see test the stick with check up [laughter] [noise] um well i visit i think sometimes guy just which is the scary mixed by it so it's done right <unk> irritating i'm here it's just much better yeah but they should they usually faxed alright

Tags

  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. Anawanda
  4. conlang
  5. dialect
  6. kunstsprachen
  7. language
  8. linguistics

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 40 Dialects and Kunstsprachen (last edited 2017-09-07 04:21:28 by TranscriBot)