Conlangery #49: The Noun Phrase

Conlangery #49: The Noun Phrase

Published: Mon, 07 May 2012 04:00:44 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 oh favorite <unk> you'll <unk> rae y._o. <unk> allow chandler cave troy way shape pay <unk> how <unk> [noise] welcome to con lying or the <unk> language is the people who created them i'm <unk> [noise] with me in wisconsin is william and that's [noise] hello and up in new jersey we have <unk> [noise] and we have a special gas today um we have gym henry on the show uh key is the creator of oh far featured on line we're going to happen today and uh so gym why don't you tell people a little bit about yourself how he got into <unk> linguistics like that and it wouldn't necessarily interested electrical <unk> whatever the library and whatever and um early and certainly i start to worry about that um creative several well <unk> <unk> and <unk> and they're about uh some lake charles here have a <unk> and then um yeah <unk> lighten it okay which is <unk> <unk> um like where [noise] <unk> [laughter] every day um [noise] yeah um and uh just so people know uh <unk> is what our future con like today but before we get to that we're just going to do what we normally do on a show and talk about one major this this is a big linguistics topic that we're doing this time and we're going to talk about the mound phrase so [laughter] well you're you said you say your use uh the <unk> not be taken to indicate any ideological commitments do this or that linguistic theory right [noise] right [noise] the problem is is that <unk> it's kind of funny phrase [noise] because not all non phrases their phrases like dogs or cats [noise] um <unk> and [noise] some down phrases don't even have known them in like the click into debt mhm uh we should say at the most basic i mountain phrase is hey now and and the the uh sort of monitor fires and it's more uh it it depends on i think william the reason you put into your notes but the thing about the different linguistic theories [noise] it's kind of depends on what your theoretical framework is what specifically the amount amount praised me that right [noise] um yeah what a non phrase means in the theoretical sense depends a lot of an <unk> linguistic series tribe too [noise] i'm really not interested in that [laughter] yeah i just wanted to bring up that you know we're going to be talking about non phrases and went through non phrases do right their arguments divert [noise] but they're not always graders and they're not always have known to them even though they're going to function in the same way mhm okay so let's try to get started um you you also put in your notes but uh we're talking about configurations languages were kind of you you want to kind of limit things to that because men are not configurations now the food we mentioned that you know mountain phrases get kind of porn apart in some languages right they can they can and [noise] you know you might have uh mostly northern kentucky racial language but still requires what we consider the known phrase to be kept together mhm [noise] uh gym do you have any kind of talks about sort of definition old things before we get on into the meat of the the topic so um <unk> <unk> <unk> where you uh <unk> sending it plus head <unk> uh <unk> they're cutting out the well [noise] oh yeah that's really there's theoretical questions i would say no [laughter] i was i was taught in linguistics <unk> limit linguistics classes that pronouns replacement mountain praise but well they tend to say <unk> craze and yet it much tired or structure <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> and years and years old and a like a lot of um [noise] right that's probably the the main test to tell the difference between unknown into pronoun in languages where they're sort of formally in this state is going to be what kinds of things can go with it so like you said normally adjectives an editor determine hers do not go with <unk> nor can you possess them yeah yeah it's it's a little yeah it gets a little tricky um uh that's the governing right ah control and all that well again that depends on line to get her theory but [laughter] [laughter] okay um so less kind of move on since we've got <unk> or definitions sort of create [noise] and even though we're kind of being a little ah freaky let's get into more into nuts and bolts what options you have when you're figuring out how <unk> phrases are porter how their constructed that sort of thing yeah so really in terms of the big top level thing is what order oh elements happening with in your known phrase where does your adjectives coming relationship to the now where do you demonstrative come in relation amount or determine or [noise] um where do numbers come you know so like these three large books mhm right what do you order for those um middle greenberg gives us is type policy and in general s. o. v. languages have a strong tendency to get hurt orders or particular orders of elements been outbreak <unk> she used to i mean when he first at his work there was a thought that he has so s._t._o. languages headstrong tendencies to but as we get more data for more languages this all tend to fall apart mhm um so right in general s._o._b. you expect things to pile up before the now yeah [noise] much like in english the three large dogs or books or whatever [noise] um it's it's that kind of weak um one of the things i've found when i was doing research for this paper or for this topic is you know when greenberg first at his work and i forget when she thought that of the twenty four possible orders of now adjectives number determined he said only twelve of those were possible oh man and then somebody came along and said oh no we found some more data so then it went up to fourteen and then up to eighteen [noise] and then this right from fourteen and then this paper i just found here added for new orders <unk> just one language [laughter] oh dear so now we're only six possible orders away from having all possible [laughter] is it determine or numerals mount agitated or numerals now <unk> to determine or [noise] all of these things are are are possible [noise] it seems like it's the most common for your known to go on one and then everything else to go on the other end sort of uh had a national or connell right after but that is by no means by no means the only possible order founding natural languages even <unk> um <unk> try to stay in touch with irish uh recently ordered the same way as well first of all she got all these books are such a <unk> [noise] [noise] right uh so that that show uh oh they ordered that would get a <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> you know i didn't see any thing really on that specifically and i was looking so yeah that adds a nice little bit of little extra complexity um and then if you have a language that has numerous classify years where did the glass in fargo and all that [laughter] that's true [noise] um um usually those <unk> come between a newborn mount <unk> or whatever they they go where they often go there but you're used to chinese there are other languages that are now numerals determine er yeah i've heard of uh i've heard of that too [laughter] [noise] um i have a let people who are interested in that particular question research it themselves so [laughter] yeah they live in such a complex topic now again one other one where like oh this should be easy but no [laughter] [noise] non trees as your complicated [noise] so do we need to say anything more about ordering uh i don't know <unk> you have any questions um no not me cause i was just trying to find one that was that measure word they'll find they'll figure it out later [laughter] um gym do you have any other notes on just the plane up ordering but the basic ordering here before like go to church um ordering out with and i get a grip in that order order the edges that if you've got what what <unk> oh yeah i think we're kind of going to move into that aren't my ah pet do you have any specific thoughts on that like order um adjectives or anything shut out settle cake or putting together a an <unk> uh <unk> uh um <unk> category 'cause actually that's <unk> those are in san diego but for now um i know slower and you've got closer to uh <unk> what <unk> um has quality size shake color [noise] okay ah <unk> that was out of the state that that that looking at um <unk> they get <unk> uh <unk> and electrical uh <unk> uh <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> in order to <unk> uh <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> so is that something is that paper talking about cross linguistically this is what tends to happen um let's see what i look at church actually that ordering <unk> or <unk> i don't trust that you all that but uh anyway i haven't yet i will um ordering restrictions or you get you to trust that quite a time that as well you know they get <unk> <unk> <unk> english okay <unk> <unk> whereas [noise] <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> a little <unk> okay <unk> more <unk> <unk> <unk> uh quality sized <unk> her <unk> you either category <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah um i got sick i learned i will check color <unk> <unk> or <unk> one part native arab um colors hello words rag y y or uh <unk> said oh i <unk> <unk> <unk> what are the borders portrait cut that now that uh products or nationality <unk> while the other orders but i'm not sure what she does but it'll be in the shirt i reckon mm interesting that's interesting so it's yeah not necessarily that these things are but there is uh uh <unk> hierarchy cross linguistically but it's more that there are <unk> if i'm understanding what you're saying gym it's more that there are sort of um [noise] there may be something that uh <unk> some pregnancy that tend to be more common but there are but there are differences among languages and i think uh william you said you said something about that too much difference between uh english in ancient greek [noise] um in multiple attribute <unk> oh that's that's a different question now and i was a different question yeah so i'm looking i'm looking at one of the links to gyms and and that does seem to be that these orders certain of these orders are coming across linguistically okay um so things like ordering value sizing color pure to reflect universal uh-huh um [noise] the degree that we can say things or university [noise] um and and the local <unk> maybe maybe different okay [noise] so once you determine your order of multiple adjectives [noise] the next question is you just make piles of them like we can english [noise] right the large noisy dog um you could not do that in most varieties ancient greek you have to use the word and between each adjectives okay yeah that was the kind that you were mentioning about <unk> and the <unk> and yeah and the big and blue and angry duck [laughter] [noise] that's interesting um [noise] i wonder if that correlates with anything else [noise] um [noise] <unk> morphology or anything i it doesn't seem like it <unk> ancient greek would have more complex <unk> morphology <unk> english the [noise] but then right i have no idea why our <unk> got that rule but that's the way it is okay [noise] um [noise] one thing that we've been skipping over in relation to the down phrase is weird do your relatives clauses go yeah in general they tend to pile up where everything else piles up mhm um again that's the tendency with everything falling apart in the usual expected ways so english <unk> all of its determine or isn't additives in numbers before then down with relatives close comes after [noise] okay [noise] you know whereas you're you're s._o._b. language will not only do that have everything before the now but it will also typically have the relative claws come before okay jim where you're going to say something oh yes oh such too um [noise] i don't have it at <unk> uh <unk> or you have a <unk> <unk> the <unk> where the gender or the temperature now praise huddles were that were there <unk> roller <unk> robert <unk> address <unk> sater <unk> argue that um heavier like our local janitor ads the relatives costs to <unk> um [noise] that ah [noise] lighter um my cars like as it gets a liberal and he also argue to fire caught correctly that yes um some of the item step apart now let us go after work to be the heavier fires that go after work okay that makes sense now my heavier you mean like more complex right yes like about a pot it's <unk> it's more complex than a janitor pray and gender face as <unk> okay that seems to make sense with what i know different languages i know that um of course in english the gender of comfortable for any other <unk> um the kind of replaces the perimeter spot slot <unk> well it depends on the <unk> like a present pronoun in some schools of thought are also determine <unk> yeah well i'm talking about uh i guess both christmas possessive pronouns and um apostrophe s. generations of course when you're using a <unk> different trucker i know that uh english and you can't get anything useful about uh english relative causes cause a relative paws follows but in chinese where everything goes before i know the relatives claws usually comes first before any adjective [noise] so it's that that makes sense [noise] and that makes sense since <unk> er a a logical sort of um i don't know intuitive sense because i was gonna say cognitive sense cognitive science okay [laughter] [laughter] uh you just you have to process things and you do not want like agenda gym or relatives claws doing things like separating determine who's from downs right you don't want you don't want some big long thing to ah separate the smaller things from mount if you can avoid yeah [noise] yeah that makes a whole lot of sense um makes it easier to harsh probably how did they yeah jim where are you gonna say something oh yeah i don't actually speak german but i try to certain construction expert or criticized as a journalism <unk> where you have article that additional price and the <unk> the <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> uh <unk> or <unk> or <unk> something like that it hurts so you say the word the the proposition of phrase and then the now yes well that's very very very ancient greek [laughter] 'course everything's going to be [noise] ah well i <unk> i would i wouldn't be surprised if it happens in germany too but i can't recall well my <unk> it's been a long time since i've studied german so i'll just be quiet i don't know much about german either so i i <unk> i shouldn't say anything [noise] mike do you think about <unk> [noise] i don't really but if you think um i'm just trying to think of situations where uh <unk> like a a a part of this whole phrase might blonde himself into the non phrase like that so if you say like you know like the the man on the moon left hello you possibly has to go on the man it's not the man's on the moon last <unk> last house that the <unk> well that's a different [noise] i don't know that's more more of what the like the <unk> it [laughter] 'cause that the janitor asshole applies to the whole mount parade [noise] that's a whole other issue that well that's a good point that we talked about is weirdest case marching go on your non freight mhm is it only going on the now are there agreement pattern [noise] is it like english where the entire noun phrase gets that politically apostrophe s. and there's languages do even um more than that i think we've mentioned on other other shows languages that hutt ah and argue to click that is after the whole mountain craze and stuff like that it can i think it'd be any case that does that it just happens that english developed in uh hey kill your way yeah nobody <unk> junior oh it's not [noise] [noise] sorry in a regular way [laughter] 'cause we lost weight loss all the cases except for on pronouns yeah and then the jazz huh fixed just be passed itself [noise] poor english and it's more seem envy [laughter] [noise] [noise] [noise] yeah but i just brought that up because um you know i was trying to think of where you had a phrase like a part of this whole phrase sort of i guess i don't know how i'd say insinuating itself into um where you know like if you didn't have that men on the means less <unk> just that the man's left so you know that on the moon personal phrase kind of goes inside <unk> between the phrase mark the um [noise] he's marking and the now where but we were talking about with german um you had the article and then that personal phrase <unk> yourself in there and other now so that's why i just brought that up um [noise] i think one could make an argument that the man on the moon is a relative clause that had been reduced isn't english i could say the man i saw yesterday or demand whom i saw yesterday and both are quite understandable home they're both relatively close to the man on the moon is the man who is on the moon mhm so that's a relative claws attached down and then your posture e. s. has to follow that a cat [noise] right so [laughter] if you have eight marking on the entire known trays pay attention to where you are attributed proposition phrases go because you might end up getting something like english or you might get something completely different [noise] or maybe you'll decide that you always have to give an overt relative construction that that could uh that could be useful and we probably shouldn't go delving too far into different ways you can do wrong causes 'cause that's a whole other show yeah [laughter] uh i i have ideas floating around my head but uh let's let's kinda move on to more <unk> [noise] [noise] yeah um [noise] what else have anything to say about just mechanics those because i have some i i've got my listed exotic and and i'm ready to move on to <unk> um anybody else uh might do you have anything the only thing i would i don't know if this need a point to go into um the <unk> definite <unk> you're just talking about the article or i've we've comebacks out later um [noise] i don't know definite miss is like a whole other <unk> as a whole other subject i paint little wherever fingers into this is just that we're mechanically fits with the now like if you're talking about i guess that would also become rather <unk> maybe you could think about how you mark cases and then how you mark definite that's because you could market all the whole whole freeze with a separate where like english or you could market uh on the verb like in the <unk> or you could market um when uh click click and uh hebrew or um arabic so i mean the only place it really <unk> i saw in for the non phrases [noise] you know in the mechanics of figuring out these skills whole structure of your non phrase you're determined there will probably have a place in there yeah and <unk> hungarian also has an overt definite marking innocent you the funky into the system [laughter] yeah yeah where do you even mark definite missing all some language is sort of let <unk> be marked him order was yeah russian to have a <unk> a definite that's really [noise] yeah <unk> um church in terms of the noun phrase the only thing was thinking about is [noise] some kind of determine hers like demonstrative pronouns especially [noise] might require a definite no mm okay um that's pretty common uh oh as all we ancient greek if you sit you can't say this dog you have to say this the dog okay [noise] and but i think that about greek but there are plenty of other languages that do the same thing all saying where we were talking about um how was definite this marking some like and i think i wasn't ancient greek limit you said you have to say this dog mhm yeah i know i think in ah italian when they talk about like my sister or my friend i think they say like you say the article and you say the possess a pronoun like let me up and says how or you'll be opening japan or something like that right um whereas in spanish you don't have that so it's summer uh you know some languages the um determine or is there an additional two having <unk> opposites the pronouns some it isn't some they have special word settled accomplish that <unk> yeah that's where you don't you like maybe you should think once you think about that when the thing about where their um these other <unk> and how they set together okay [noise] but my <unk> [noise] yeah i think we could probably do a whole episode on <unk> or at least it <unk> on the terminals in general yeah i agree [laughter] we can probably <unk> of that so william let's have your uh your list of exotic uh that you were going to say well it's not so much uh exotic <unk> things to think about okay so the first point is don't get caught up in purely ruddock too composition all semantics [noise] what i mean by this is demonstrative and determine there's an added you can do more than you think okay right in our normal standard sort of linguistics and syntax were told you know you take the <unk> and then the adjectives somehow describes it down [noise] yeah it's an english i say something like where's my damn book <unk> the word damn is not doing a normal adjectives thing no i've heard it said that in misuse it has the syntax of an attitude and the semantics growl [laughter] right it is not doing even though we patterns like an <unk> he's not doing what we think adjectives do which is modify now so there is some interesting possibilities you can play with their second of all [noise] um demonstrative can be used to convey all sorts of additional sentences [noise] once again aging <unk> this is very rude the word this who toes is very rude when used to refer to person oh nah um especially if it's used by itself um in places with <unk> um and another good example is in post christian rabbinical literature the phrase <unk> each in hebrew just need that man while we me and it always means jesus [laughter] right so it's yeah so it's it but it's a linguistic expression of a a pretty deep theological speak so there are things you can do with the <unk> parks that don't you know that are that are working at a higher level of discourse than just you know [noise] here's your attitude into property and blah blah blah mhm okay [noise] um anybody else have any final thoughts [noise] before like what i wanted to say one more thing oh donna how are you at another thing i'm sorry <unk> [noise] so then now france [noise] used as a tool of historical linguistics oh some adjectives get used to offer the now that they may take over the <unk> completely [noise] um so for example the word inland for land era means in the rye in most of it's relative languages who <unk> same dry land became such a big strays that land just disappeared altogether <unk> huh [noise] um and in <unk> the word for barley just means whites [laughter] [noise] um uh <unk> in related languages so as we as we talked about weight beginning the quick in the dead which you can think about as a noun phrase were the now is just is not over sometimes and you shouldn't be that turned into down by this process [noise] yeah i was er i <unk> i'm sorry actually <unk> that that a lot of people got the uh i took a stand up for the whole for uh poker that quality yes yes we should also desert per quarter symbols which can be very confusing or whatever edgy great oh okay um well when i was gonna say i was watching this lady on you to today and uh it said that i think the word for field is the same as easy in the sense of like not difficult so i don't know if that's another instance of it's kind of um a noun phrase being used as an adjective and being transferred that way huh how [noise] but um it was just interesting that you mentioned that 'cause i just saw it today but <unk> <unk> it's an interesting way that have things yeah derived short of a um that's a that's a a curious weigh that for some ethic shifting darker jordan and and then the last thing i just wanted to mention historically is overtime demonstrative determine theirs tend to get dissolved and turned into definite markers <unk> that's all [noise] all right i see like okay um [noise] anybody else have [noise] any last comments on the mound praise my <unk> my <unk> okay well um we're going to move on them and talk about [noise] uh it's <unk> yeah uh i'm i'm pronouncing that right jim right i'm i'm pretty early [laughter] [laughter] okay um <unk> <unk> oh yeah <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah some but [noise] it's a little it's a little difficult for me or heartbeat [noise] why don't you actually see um introduce your language course i know you talk a little bit about it on the <unk> at the top of the show but just talk about uh what went into designing language in anything that you kind of would want a highlight for us and then we'll we'll kind of jump in all right okay um so as i said it said um <unk> it's a <unk> um whereas um <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> what is a false naturally man but it's also um not objective or uh <unk> um <unk> as a typical <unk> large pot or ethical um <unk> decide to be easy for me to learn to use while still being <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> interesting to me i mean ah the fact that these people <unk> shut their property so perpetrator late um that that's not going to like rich or if there are actually that's not the lowest at all the process that late start getting back to <unk> [noise] how does that knows how to have already lucky gets <unk> threatened by the time i never started record <unk> oh yeah so i tried the actual um i bought a couple of logical properties or the language it's a. s. i kept language would probably be the best way to describe it um um <unk> it tends to have um <unk> order but the order of non factors <unk> we understand that it's fairly <unk> um it's um how does that show and it you just push the shows for medical uh well as well as a special ed um <unk> <unk> except for sure there are um <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> ah the object of results and so on and so forth [noise] you have anything you want him they were <unk> asking questions um say that again but you have anything more you wanted to cover before i started asking questions [laughter] go ahead [noise] so uh the sound system how did you decide that you wanted clicks to be pronouns um i don't remember that call for fourteen years ago okay er er i <unk> i thought each other click click on that part of a larger <unk> uh-huh mhm and such so uh what can they can try to use those ads uh <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> actually <unk> so at that age um <unk> don't really well with other county started at least the way i am able to <unk> to that time and i say well what about yes lot close class uh political robert lady what about <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> uh-huh mhm i didn't actually write all this outside and i've lost seventy <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> st possible short <unk> so <unk> that's just surprising to me that they were <unk> confidence from the get go yeah i like um so i'm looking a little limit out your materials one your sight i like that you actually have an essay saying does ah <unk> violate linguistic universal than you talk about a whole bunch of things about how it actually does violate quite a few universal her at least um tendencies of metra languages i liked that uh sort of you you decided that's a very uh <unk> you're you're very aware of that but still decided to keep it the way it was right there are some aspects that turned out to be hard to abuse i won't say a possible are but they were harder to learn the language and so i've actually changed <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> a few years ago when i had that <unk> <unk> you ever called rush into work mhm there's something about that if you ever <unk> actually that site that i had to set quake peter to <unk> <unk> <unk> i thought that exactly right yeah sure i mean for me this is really interesting question is so what if what language violates linguistic universal as we've seen as more and more languages become available uses data in type <unk> we discovered that universal or even weaker than we once thought and that was not very strong to start with right even if something is never a cruise the single natural human language certainly spoken it doesn't follow from that that it's not actually <unk> in my <unk> what this experiment that's uh <unk> uh what uh how <unk> how <unk> experiment i asked her ex <unk> uh <unk> just one person kind of like what language <unk> at forty credit for one way or the other about what they're talking about <unk> but it's one more to court shorter uh um i did find ah i did find that interesting i also find it interesting that you have a lot of tax which makes sense that you said you you try to use this language <unk> almost every day right yes i i i write in uh um probably several times a week i doubt perch men that they'll get it and and and uh <unk> uh pretty much every day yeah i was i was especially ah pleased that you decided to translate and x. k. c. d. cartoon [laughter] [laughter] yes <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> i didn't <unk> question for <unk> and you had that when it's outlet picture <unk> oh yeah okay um when you say that you speak to yourself this language daily uh wise just to learn the language um yes it's [noise] <unk> um <unk> and also you know what i told her that that was called like the uh the original goal which in <unk> in order to learn it now is it five years you court for writing like a diary <unk> fur i get <unk> partly <unk> get better at using it and then <unk> riding it at a time and the cars <unk> greater killing a privacy shorter <unk> <unk> um <unk> about the actual probability us anybody had it cost a diary of looking at it the <unk> um there's nobody else reporting link that flight which um <unk> more private <unk> even if it's already which will <unk> will get access to the physical diary yeah well yeah and uh i guess it's more layers of production 'cause they'd have to get access to your diary get access to and then no to look on line before you're you're lexical i am um [noise] and your grammar and be able to translate it so they would somebody would have to really want to know about you before that they were able to read your diary injuries [noise] you know <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> where someone else could sure use the language to that level yeah and presumably different periods of your diary are in different stages of development of the language exactly i mean we still read the material you originally wrote um it's a little bit ogden except for something to be very early x rays then you think about chicago for our work um can be a little okay but still understandable uh-huh uh some of the earliest stuff what about like <unk> um i have a hard time <unk> <unk> <unk> [noise] [noise] so um [noise] one of the sentences sitting here in front of me on the derivation will page says she arrived at one o'clock p._m. yes could you produce that spontaneously without having your notes in front of you um <unk> <unk> okay [laughter] wow where's <unk> uh shaun one sorry about that and you hear could you heard that you know i i heard that um people um in case i cut out the earlier part i want to uh let people know gym actually had to go outside to get reception so he's very far away from his notes [laughter] he just got <unk> that just came up off the top of his head [noise] um i like that you have um i'm looking through your dictionary and you do a good job of doing uh sort of less english she words i notice you have a word that means spilled beer but then but uh yeah or an example of the <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> what you gotta <unk> okay <unk> <unk> right the sex applied to work <unk> still <unk> actually put that are out of that uh <unk> uh more bend oregon has bought lots of liquids <unk> uh if you click on there okay you should get that that that er er possibly <unk> had that yet okay [noise] um but you also have a lot of other words that are clearly samantha <unk> different from english you have one that's go between <unk> representative agent in the mirror to <unk> the quarter translator all of that is one word and you i also know that you have one that means uh you have <unk> uh <unk> <unk> <unk> basically one word that covers the family scary day yes so is that a general thing that you were um you have word score particular for families of animals rather than individual species or is that just that one of <unk> at the level of family as you go to the category electric cars and then um search or uh an animal species or <unk> or ah or <unk> <unk> there are um uh a few of the order of words are are ah <unk> <unk> ah <unk> ah we're without a specific uh record so what uh uh a a particular label hot potential <unk> er quite but er let's say we were <unk> animals pets all share some level of the ladies when they are higher higher than species <unk> your <unk> family somehow i order cigarettes animal that's interesting <unk> you have stuff like [noise] i mean you have uh interesting sort of ways of driving directions <unk> bill is north <unk> true beam north <unk> heart of being north at contact being more north <unk> inside that uh that looks like it's a regular thing that you do decide to look at the <unk> and they'll cut <unk> titles context for steaks <unk> uh <unk> they'll get the uh the <unk> such a <unk> a lot of the trees and uh let's say for the uh special uh <unk> except for us to <unk> automatically corrected <unk> cut together at the different <unk> automatically <unk> rewriting uh more uh <unk> unlike a dear well for here long after work um [noise] um <unk> <unk> <unk> okay um so i don't know i think that's an interesting thing i think on our listeners should probably take note of that because you know you can look through look through listeners look through gyms dictionary and look this realize that this is not meant to be a naturalistic language [noise] <unk> not the same time he has a lot of interesting derivation will stop and a lot of <unk> stuff [noise] in addition to interesting grammar stuff that he's doing [noise] [noise] yeah like the i liked the a lot of the derivation stuff that was especially pleased to notice that you have to separate words for con liner one for a random coming here and one for one he's lucky enough to get paid to do the job [noise] yeah [laughter] um he uh yeah i've got two different um <unk> um how about you got <unk> uh <unk> or or or s. and english setters one per cent of the professional <unk> like for somebody that's actually more as a power here mhm yeah that's cool yeah um [noise] let's see that and another thing i notice just in terms of um [noise] how to deal with foreign words and i noticed that you have uh rafter particles to deal with or their racial elements rather [noise] to deal with foreign name [noise] which i thought it was interesting 'cause from time to time i played with the idea of having a particle just to see them all one word comes from someplace else mm mhm yeah it <unk> it it might be in several wage uh uh <unk> uh <unk> hard work with the cable it's sort of like an air but we'll or the terrible rubber on a guy that language in your <unk> there is everywhere else <unk> um doesn't japanese use the different like this <unk> er hit on it and then <unk> something like that would also be kind of like uh you wouldn't have to worry about before or after but it's interesting to mark a word that what they're from afar <unk> foreign language or from was there from your language you know the the kind of thing yeah sure i mean the kind of thing is just just um [noise] or the graphics mhm yeah yeah i was told that catch her <unk> ah <unk> <unk> um uh <unk> uh <unk> uh <unk> sure um i i felt felt pictures from bottle and sort of look at look at it but i can't remember exactly where they were um <unk> which uh <unk> it's like <unk> right right it's hard to find information unborn lean these days um yeah some of the effects that used to be a let it stop there more yeah um it's pretty much the grammar and not all the text electric <unk> used to be there maybe i don't remember for sure right yeah no it's been hard to find [noise] 'cause i was sort of thinking we should discuss it but [noise] so how do you just as a <unk> a boring the chemicals you how do you manage your dictionary <unk> they don't ask me textile had to let let it <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> countries where they were lax mhm um i <unk> <unk> <unk> ah <unk> <unk> <unk> i i found i wanted to have the <unk> going to have like a closet settlers stretch the <unk> the <unk> all the all the uh <unk> uh similar to that <unk> that's the that's the <unk> <unk> <unk> i guess more at least that it's <unk> [noise] and uh so later <unk> process that <unk> uh you know getting a <unk> um uh the reason i was asking is because the web dictionaries highly cross reference so i was wondering how <unk> do you manage that right the cost that particular i left the generator you let's say the english authors you're <unk> uh an english board that come out so that's what i gathered that <unk> <unk> okay well yeah i noticed that by their <unk> <unk> they're doing [laughter] [noise] [laughter] [noise] i i notice [noise] in your demonstrative you distinguish and therefore from canada for yes did you <unk> greek or did that just occurred to you um [noise] i don't remember <unk> specific language [noise] uh [noise] i don't remember exactly when or how <unk> what one of the early <unk> hey all three or four years later okay um what other teachers there had been more difficult to learn to correctly um actual gives it a lot the um <unk> um <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> ah <unk> <unk> <unk> uh when i say something had to board or something else and i haven't talked about the outset yes i seem to go into so um urban <unk> yet the how um [noise] clean yahoo shoots it uh i went there before i <unk> you [noise] shown that jenny how's before though <unk> <unk> what i was doing what i what am i gonna do this or that that that's what the more <unk> more okay the uh had a <unk> an adequate and it hurt out <unk> ah <unk> <unk> you're single or soccer team like any she greek when it uses cat for it's because it's about to introduce the next phase of the story or something right one way you're ready to have the king and in the king said this blah blah blah [noise] right <unk> where the actual turn out how to <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> that's how <unk> how <unk> <unk> well <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> ah had a court quite out that the <unk> for uh <unk> uh <unk> [noise] had a heart practice <unk> <unk> <unk> much to their car and then ah <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> [noise] well huh huh huh interesting you handle that conjunctions i notice you say that you don't use any more or or some thing you'd never use you're not sure about [noise] uh yeah there's ah [noise] so uh uh uh several different sets of conceptual snow language <unk> which uh <unk> uh out of outlets describing a church table so there are several of those <unk> rarely rarely <unk> and er [noise] <unk> um <unk> <unk> recently <unk> ah the um <unk> <unk> <unk> the war but most of the others um i i rarely ever years um ah apart from ah i know william is is is asking a bunch of some tactic questions i wanna go back to these um this interesting like semantics stuff that you do because i just was looking through the dictionary i saw that you have different words for uh passive <unk> and <unk> that can <unk> do you read a lot of fine fine um found it yet i read it happened i wonder if those sports is probably quite when i was doing a liquor by love story about um uh that that when i called when i was writing about grill which i've had a <unk> a <unk> a lot of the country where the lord says you get <unk> <unk> ah writing about other <unk> um i tend to be able to <unk> years <unk> pretty well <unk> i studied the strangest <unk> your team and uh <unk> i didn't take her out which they're just described situational that i'd rather go ever actually started civil <unk> life that makes sense um one thing that i thought was interesting again so if we're going to talk about lexical things is that you have two words for maybe yes and <unk> natural opening universal stocks and <unk> that's quarterback let's comic <unk> different now it's <unk> here's what about sports but i will get together uh interesting uh uh a ritual it that way <unk> <unk> what what reference <unk> maybe a situation where the <unk> <unk> all over at war for maybe <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> man okay rigidly <unk> uh quite a bit of the <unk> when i didn't realize what had forgot what i already had one and then <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> that's a great <unk> <unk> when you have when you have two different words uh that you didn't realize you had the first word you know you can you can put some shade of meeting on it or just leave it alone make make them sending them but i <unk> yeah <unk> with uh <unk> you were you're you probably are more interested in having words be different or words have different meanings right um my <unk> been kinda quiet and you have any questions for jim i'm just i'm looking to the less come here and i'm just marveling added it it's really really comprehensive and i've uh you know i usually ah just right my thing down in can never get it all in one place like this and this is it's very <unk> and it's it's wonderful to hear you know about where he got his ideas from aware how <unk> how you to read about dreams or uh <unk> you know it's just um nice for me to hear about that 'cause you know that actually speak to the person who created it is different from looking at and say uh <unk> well jarrod token languages where there is no way to speak to the creator uh so yeah and obviously i'm seeing words for board games and presumably places around where you are places that you talked about [noise] uh all sorts of stuff how many words does <unk> um <unk> and to the bottom of the <unk> you'll see that list and trees and electric cars and <unk> and various categories oh <unk> there'll be the number of uh <unk> worse than it ever tried like rabbits and <unk> <unk> um that [noise] it's kind of the folks that i could ever <unk> how's the actual the cat yeah yeah [laughter] <unk> [laughter] right well probably about a hundred and forty five so uh not dark haired words electric cars there there are so i can look up it's i forgot <unk> ah <unk> old <unk> we've been <unk> by a better <unk> er <unk> <unk> <unk> uh uh uh <unk> uh uh <unk> as an earlier <unk> uh-huh sure there's a couple of <unk> uh uh uh <unk> uh <unk> uh <unk> with a fair work <unk> <unk> oh okay and there's a lot of cases what started that without a doubt scott oregon lot diary <unk> sort of something and then later when i was going through the diary <unk> learning about <unk> works to enter i thought okay and express that better <unk> it's actually <unk> <unk> that's actually i've heard that word but later <unk> heard that what she was just watching white <unk> okay you know yeah i can tell you that <unk> that i recall that you'd never actually they're actually for perhaps because i never saw well or or um <unk> it's so protective aesthetic vulgar and treat her church right [noise] i have to say as an amateur classes [noise] i love margin alias the idea of needing to make margin that send your own diary appeals to me somehow [laughter] so so how did you let the orthodoxy <unk> <unk> <unk> um you'll see there are some <unk> some margin <unk> uh what uh it's uh <unk> <unk> much at work or on your word that needs to go to lunch cart and all of the uh <unk> uh <unk> bring appalled at work right go ahead anyway and uh i got later i'll look it up back west remembering usual four letter and like i'm very <unk> <unk> <unk> oh they're very <unk> very uh and running at scarves are in <unk> which uh which uh you'll say that <unk> <unk> i just heard a loss and then there's also like also you know air protecting patch [noise] [noise] [noise] trying to think if there was anything else i mean just in the poor <unk> <unk> <unk> look at this language [noise] the derivation system is astonishing into dictionaries pretty darned fool i think those are the biggest things i mean we haven't talked about really you or your case alignment system which in [noise] makes a lot of decisions i know no natural language that does mhm we could probably talk <unk> wanting to less naturalistic got such a <unk> uh <unk> uh catch like a special system so um yeah that's probably one of the more interesting <unk> which uh technically <unk> it'd be <unk> ridiculous that's been wear the same richard hi shrimp um experience <unk> topic of the country are dealt with airport rather than lauderdale ah had a gorgeous like <unk> right uh and the uh <unk> bye bye bye <unk> whereas uh <unk> work for some ridiculous concept you can turn various uh <unk> worked in the person's actual by pretty well <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> um <unk> have you found it easy all we used to know what you should use with this or that verb or do you have to stop and think when you use the new verbal unless you know uh <unk> and um the <unk> about what's more appropriate <unk> uh <unk> sure [noise] what was it a good team [noise] <unk> um more nervous about that checked up <unk> um <unk> uh touchy <unk> gets his whole argument structure court ranks right i was just thinking that would [laughter] if anyone wanted but other than that you wanted to try to use the language i think that would be pretty necessary it seems like it'd be easy to uh to pick the wrong ones yeah um another thing that i like <unk> and he <unk> be documented is you have a separate page on semantics for particular semantic fields which is great yeah i mean do you think in terms of semantic field starting early your vocabulary or is this your refined yeah even later that uh <unk> what am i ever told the cycles <unk> very <unk> ah <unk> ah so um yeah i just thought <unk> what's <unk> <unk> what <unk> <unk> <unk> picky like the basic concepts and dividing and not that i <unk> like different little <unk> or have <unk> <unk> <unk> ah prices are <unk> [noise] [noise] mhm and uh so what are the first uh split it feels like they have a lot of [noise] say what sports mental <unk> and there's a lot of sexual <unk> alerts yeah um and course part of anything uh subject of qualities that relates <unk> how long has <unk> factor boston appreciate it looks away [noise] so for instance um uh <unk> uh best for your <unk> [noise] it <unk> has a basic worked for um appreciating <unk> eight and then <unk> you're <unk> you're at work or <unk> oh that's interesting sure oh sure um i also noticed you didn't have a simple word for good <unk> right there are a variety airports are good for different kinds of <unk> <unk> or um or um similar <unk> from uh pittsburgh for political states or for standards are gradual uh-huh this is all very very fascinating and i think we could talk on and on for hours [noise] but i think we kind of have to uh wrap up the the uh future <unk> 'cause we been talking for quite a bit on it um [noise] uh we will linked to gyms page in the show notes and everybody who wants to to talk about kim kim uh can actually you know anyone who wants to um learn about <unk> <unk> <unk> look at the materials can look at it i'm sure that everyone who looks and it won't even have a hundred more questions [laughter] uh <unk> they could ask uh there's like no that's um on the <unk> <unk> ask questions you <unk> where i could not <unk> they're <unk> people as well and have our <unk> <unk> okay well linked to that too um i'm i'm trying to remember some people other than you have used this language for translation relays is that true remembering it properly yes um <unk> peterson <unk> like <unk> i think it was you took it in a second translation right like [laughter] wow [noise] [noise] [noise] <unk> [laughter] <unk> [noise] uh my <unk> <unk> <unk> there's <unk> sexual relations there rather think that's fair for there to <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> um outlet <unk> um i don't have the second <unk> away and it was ever <unk> <unk> it's a lot web page on on my side uh corporate <unk> you'll find <unk> <unk> that it's a regular exerciser [noise] and um um <unk> section to get the orchards um yeah i found it [noise] and it has some [laughter] corrections by you yeah that's great that's great [noise] all right i'm gonna stop asking questions now [laughter] that's all right um we're going to that [noise] we didn't get many emails but we did uh as far as feedback is concerned we didn't get many emails that were interesting but we did get some interesting <unk> just kind of want to really quickly point out um uh <unk> is that his name or kid um he's the the guy who invented ah being a man who tried to get him on the pocket cash too but we could get a um [noise] he left a couple <unk> comments one of 'em i want to highlighting says um some the he said that some of the oddities um <unk> it could be explained away from my uh or by looking at how fits into a condo so he said uh for example the unusual zero marked speculative out of a natural originates in the fact that evidence reality marketing was optional impede w er that's permanent western but became obligatory and most contacts in the in the development of in your beer and at one point the few situations where <unk> <unk> he was not mark who's the questions in hypothetical statements got reanalyze as part of the paradigm [noise] really oh that kind of in that sense and that is our way [laughter] so that that goes back to something that i said in regards to sound systems but it applies to strange semantics and stuff too is if you have something that unusual statistically or seems a little bit on natural ask yourself where it came from historically poor in this case he was actually historically driving a language and um just naturally came up with this um and i'm in the process of doing a derived uh uh historical <unk> and yeah stuff like this happen this weird things happen when you want to run the found changes and try to figure out uh different things um i'm in heat you mentioned also are are are the clash too solid inevitable i preach mushy edible objects was actually a merger up to <unk> to western math classes so that makes sense to some other things um and we also have a headache <unk> who was happy that we actually mentioned <unk> oriented rather yeah [laughter] yeah we we mentioned <unk> middle persian he <unk> he was uh i'm glad that ah i guess he was pickled that we didn't ignore him right just talk about <unk> uh <unk> that's been meaning i didn't know people read the comics that there was really interesting thing that related that <unk> a discussion that happened in the <unk> is um [noise] it was really interesting situation between san strict and invested mhm cities are very closely related languages [noise] there was some big serious theological dispute there between [noise] they <unk> religion and the <unk> religion because in sanskrit dave <unk> means a god and the <unk> the <unk> were they <unk> means a demon <unk> that's right who is it the head that comment [noise] uh i mean that's me responding to somebody else talking about something and [noise] oh that's right the [laughter] the sore after you notice it [noise] and i'd forgotten about the other part is well in that the <unk> um we're also got this <unk> as well so [noise] it's <unk> that's an interesting bit of words coming demean practically opposite things because of a cultural difference that develops along with four languages separating that's really awesome yeah isn't that great huh [noise] well i think ah that i think well i'll i'll leave that where it is okay and and uh direct people to to read through some of our comments and see what ah what discussions are going on and on and like in the comic sections on these <unk> [noise] um often and there's some really interesting linguistic discussions go go on <unk> [noise] um i think we're all wrapped us up i'll start with our guess um jim i every episode i asked these bozos um if they have any final words the wisdom so do you have any <unk> any any sort of lasted vice that you would give to all the people listening to what you can actually use it a lot of fun [noise] that's good okay so and william [noise] no i can't possibly get better than that alright and mike [noise] all right uh well even at that and i will say happy <unk> you've ever been listening to on line or you can find the shirts for this episode an all previous <unk> dot com including links to our featured on line and a few resources to help you make sense of today's topic you also find linked to subscribe to us on high tuned or through on a pond [noise] to our quarter based book and google plus pages and a whole lot more questions commonsense to justin may be sent to online react email dot com you can also submit those translated greetings we played the popular show <unk> display in our head er police e. b. contribute paid for detail [noise] thanks for listening [noise] <unk> [noise] um you're you're breaking up on us and you go back again <unk> say that again [noise] you're breaking up on a [noise] um [noise] that will <unk> <unk> where there's a better reception [noise] um [noise] what was the last thing you were just saying [noise] [noise] so [noise] gym do you have anything just about mechanics basic mount <unk> jim are you are [noise] i dunno we'll see um <unk> do you have anything [noise] okay [noise] gym link in the in the gym or you still there i don't know i we may have lost jim somehow who's lost <unk> well how can i say what you're going to say i'm gonna try to calm but uh hang up and call back okay [laughter] gonna make a lot of noise so why don't you try to pull off <unk> yeah i'm calling them back right now [noise] okay [noise] [noise] <unk> exception [noise] [noise] [noise] [noise] [noise] [noise] hello hey jim we lost you for a while yeah um <unk> you but not very well it's pretty <unk> you know they're <unk> [noise] ah <unk> [noise] [noise] [noise] oh well [noise] what's going on [noise] um [noise] so i had to go outside to get better reception i mean i really <unk> like what the outside to get [noise] ah [noise] okay [noise] you sound like you're in a win storm [noise] yeah i it's windy outside your um what's the alternative is to be a <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> okay well we'll <unk> we'll see if we can we can uh get through it yeah sorry about that uh breathing i'm not used to my headset what's what amusing here my phone's like right in front of the mouth all nervous but uh well um i'm glad that william pointed it out because i wasn't i wasn't sure if that was i didn't realize that was your breathing i thought it was the wind on gyms [laughter] all right so what are we doing next time um the same [laughter] everytime pinkie

Tags

  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. conlang
  4. gjâ-zym-byn
  5. language
  6. linguistics
  7. noun
  8. noun phrase

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 49 The Noun Phrase (last edited 2017-09-07 14:29:06 by TranscriBot)