Conlangery #55: Practicum — Getting Rid of Tense

Conlangery #55: Practicum — Getting Rid of Tense

Published: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 04:00:43 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 <unk> <unk> <unk> each you'd see i can see <unk> see that oh please do ya [noise] [noise] [noise] well <unk> luggage forbid languages and people who are <unk> really would be a great state of wisconsin is william m._s. hello and you're in virginia right now uh visiting the boyfriend is mike <unk> hello how are you [laughter] and we have a special guess from the show today um his name is geoffrey <unk> he's uh she hosts get on the um the dumplings firms that to her scare with a q. um and jeff why don't you tell us a little bit about how you got into <unk> you know your your story within the community [noise] okay well uh i started taking ah language courses or in some cases study german spanish lot when i was a teenager um and that's what got me started inspired me to start constructing languages although i never got it got very far i think i did <unk> or something like that yeah but when i went to a lot and then found the <unk> last one i really started i started <unk> everything before that was just um usually they just you know and no actual language but i've been busy and good yeah yeah i've seen your period you heard of a few different languages um one of which were actually going to be featuring today but we'll um we'll get to that when we get the uh first why don't we talk a little bit about another thing our main topic for today which is a practical them about getting ready to um ten [noise] [noise] so we all know what too is you know past president teacher or <unk> or ah whatever paradigm you do it sort of <unk> a a a an event place in time and i think mainly we're talking about in terms of getting rid of times we're talking about william i think we're talking more about getting rid of morphological time <unk> right right so for my notes for today i sort of was being smart alec and i just [laughter] the shorter show ever colin use and [noise] yeah yeah <unk> is is we are talking about some sort of morphological or maybe some tactic tens marking on number so ten is just a category of takes it takes is a fancy linguistic turned it means pointing out so things like this and that our texas come and go in code pointing out information [noise] we're talking about [noise] morphine that only do the job of locating an event in time mhm obviously an adverb like yesterday also location invention tiring but it's not ten because it's not a marker undercover and it means something quite specific as opposed to pass which may be quite made demeaning okay [noise] so it's just i want to talk about in in various things you can do when you don't have overt morphological tens marking um doberman and honestly i think most of our <unk> our things that <unk> i don't think about as much but i think that quite a few people do at least get the idea of just getting rid of <unk> quite a few i've seen quite a few <unk> online that they they do their thing um they they choose to do aspect rather than tense and things like that yeah it's probably a little bit more popular <unk> at least in all of these speakers of into european languages are accustomed to tense and find aspect to kind of interesting you knew when alarming [laughter] um so we're tempted to play with it more [noise] and for those people who aren't don't know explain tense but aspect is um going to get a clear explanation of uh [laughter] for me for me clear when i think of aspect i think of it i i know what <unk> <unk> as far as explaining it succinctly um aspect can be whether something is completely non completed or whether it's <unk> or ah whether it has to i guess the repetition or how <unk> how many times that accent is done completed or not is that right well um winter <unk> higher [laughter] we we did an entire episode on aspect actually we did what did we do tents that aspect too together now where did we thought we were going to bet that turned into a catastrophe so we split them up mm okay so we had when we had three episodes tense aspect of mood right and then er i'd have to look up i'd have to look up on the list what episode that those were but um so after a whole episode on it uh i'm not sure that we um really got down to the bottom um any uh central i think the <unk> the most basic thing we can say aspect tends to be more about how the speaker views and events uh current some time by the way that episode seventeen was er episode on aspect mhm that's how a speaker use a certain events in terms of the time streams so if you view it as for example perfect versus imperfect for perfect diversity in perspective upper effective is something that you view as a discreet event in in in in <unk> in perspective it's something that the speaker is viewing as sort of ongoing stretched out yeah an ongoing event that something else interrupts or that or <unk> that is more stretched out for some reason or another mhm right i mean it's really important to understand that the perfect do we say this all the time when something complete or not that's not what aspect me <unk> well it can mean that but it's not what the productive me you can do i say i was going to the store yesterday or i went to the store yesterday one of those <unk> one of those er is productive they described the identical events which is definitely complete 'cause i'm talking to you know i'm not at the store [laughter] um but the point is using one aspect or the other helps you organize the relationship between background information and foreground information mhm [noise] i was going to the store yesterday and i saw a car wreck mhm it's all about the presentation of the event right i mean we can we do robust in 'cause when you don't have ten yeah then you're different aspects and sort of spread out to have tents like implications so we can get to that was a little bit mhm yeah yeah let's let's let's pull back here and actually get talking more about ten [noise] and the getting rid the their um [laughter] because that's that's the actual topic and we've already talked the whole episode on aspects so we don't yeah i didn't over everything i didn't mean to read to receive the lobster i just meant to sort of your foot no on uh just in case they're destroying us ethic those x._y._z. continuing it was just i don't know [laughter] [noise] yeah so some languages that are otherwise very aspect focused might still have a future tense mhm and this is kind of expected sense the future is kind of moody die in many ways you're talking about something that hasn't happened yet so it's a little bit weird so two languages to come to mind really quickly are <unk> <unk> chinese mandarin [laughter] yeah and we've mentioned this before everyone will say that mandarin has note tense but technically it has to future markers [noise] the the the the thing being is the third distinguish sort of <unk> well actually possibly three but they're all distinguish on sort of mood type features there's there's quite which is more like a potential or even a a a an indicative future i'm in <unk> is like more if you want to do something and you're permanent to do it and <unk> is you you want to do something and you're not certain if you if it will happen in the future but the but yeah i think talking about the future [noise] has a little bit of a different um ah it has a different quality than other than other um other time periods when you're talking about pets because just i don't know <unk> it's a very different it's when you're talking about the past you can refer to events that you are certain happened whereas in the in the future you can't be certain of any outcome really right right which is why it crosses the the border into mood so much yeah um <unk> and and one thing we can also say is in those languages and have a pretty overt perfected imperfect of system the prospective often to folks too marking some event in the past for the simple reason that it's not really clear what the perfect given the president with me yeah how can you can how can you um talked about it in a <unk> in the president that's not ongoing also bonded yeah it's a little bit odd um language that have something that looks like a morphological present perfect but then it often are proactive rather and it means all sorts of things like i think he bulgarian it actually future yeah russian i was gonna say is it that way yeah right so <unk> some some funky things happen then when you try to indicate bound to vent does describing event that's going on now it's a little bit weird [noise] um [noise] so you might um [noise] one thing you can talk about what changes do you have an absolute tenth system or relatives and system mm in an absolute tent system um you orient events too the moment of speaking mhm and relative ten system you orient your ten's marking to some the narrative that's going on [noise] and his <unk> across the language or just based on that uh discourse that instance when the uh do other absolute or relative [noise] typically that tends to be works across the language <unk> some languages are much more absolutely marking some languages are much more relative marketing oh okay [noise] um i'm i'm jeff did you have something to say oh let's just splendid comment that um if you have any more what aspects you have to serve as well the lot best relatives <unk> exactly exactly yeah so i tried to do relative tents early on in <unk> but it's really complicated to write a narrative with relatives and it's not the greatest did it completely fine [laughter] although i agree i know it just kind of broke my brain a little bit and i had to back away from that i guess i guess it just is something that you have to learn how to do right i mean english is much more absolutely tense focus so that's not surprising to me it will be confusing um so you can avoid an absolute tends to some bucks new sneak in relative tense marking in various ways with things like interior or <unk> um which vietnamese does something very much like this [noise] now oh saigon and i was gonna say and as as jeff mentioned um effectively if you've got a perspective it can act like an interior tense now in chinese when you say like there's the phrase each men like before or after that somewhat like a <unk> a relative times marketing and i guess an adverb you'll phrase kind of used or sure yeah i mean before and <unk> just means after mhm so you know vietnamese will still i mean people say if you need that has no ten when [noise] yeah true [laughter] i mean [laughter] it does not have obligatory tenth marketing but in her real has these tools to organize the events structure of complex heritage yeah what <unk> i think any language will have some time to organize events in time because it's it's an important thing even if they're kind of stuck only using adverb which [noise] sure i think most of most most languages will at least have some aspect tricks to put a pool right big trick injunction ken implied tens or sequence thing <unk> <unk> the point of the vietnamese thing is especially it's interior marker is very very bleached of any other semantics sense it's not an adverb it is an actively relative and parker oh mhm [noise] um so you kind of ditched ten when you've got a way to fall back and supporting to say that a lot of um time vietnamese does not overly mark tense but it has things to fall back on if it wants to for clarity no as far as relative term sources absolute goes um is there any time were what would be the past and absolute would not necessarily be the end here in terms of speaking 'cause you're not going to be speaking in the present time that's going to differ from language the language and <unk> especially if you have overt aspect or you know like in most into european languages were aspect intense are clumps together interiors or almost always going to be um <unk> or some kind of past mhm english or formal english very confusing lee uses the past productive past perfect yeah and down there i <unk> yeah the the perfect <unk> the <unk> yeah i will have been talking to him <unk> according to the point is different languages follow different strategies for how humor m._t._v. <unk> who downtown interior already [laughter] yeah anyway [noise] of course mhm of course the odd thing is when you're reading present tense murder and then the interior is just past tense [noise] right right it it could <unk> exactly absolutely be used in just that way when for some reason you needed to do it [noise] um we we sort of touched on this little bit the the whole point of ten is to help you relate events to other events um so you might have special conjunction or special ed rooms for sequence than there is a very funny used in english of the word now um now we would think has a pretty clear meaning meaning present tense happening and at the moment of speaking [noise] would you can write in your diary or your your memoirs when you're famous and older than you you want to write a book about your life you could say no i was going to college uh-huh well that's very odd and yet we all understand what that means so you can hijack other kind of add verbs shoo sequence of jobs mhm [noise] so now in that weird with is kind of a past time posting earlier [laughter] [laughter] so [laughter] among out right now [laughter] i'm sorry i pulled him interest uh an odd sort of [noise] cleaning hired rio in that i made [noise] uh which usually means so into sort of the um the as a into a discourse marker that could also [noise] or more sort of discourse slashed <unk> that could also uh the new when you have a rapid sequence of events eaten sentence you go one sentence <unk> <unk> <unk> no to that there's a sequence of events that occurring [noise] um right now that's natural <unk> yeah no there there's um a spectrum of things and it can mean okay and <unk> there's certainly plenty of human languages but haven't and that's specifically means and then yeah <unk> right it it <unk> is specifically for a sequence of events mhm mhm [noise] for um <unk> talk about what <unk> is it more common to have not lines that so tense or that just about equal that <unk> the <unk> don't know i don't know what the numbers are now that i think about it so i'm gonna make a quick trip to wall [laughter] i think to i didn't even think to to check on how many languages actually do this sort of an overt marking or not um i know that there's ah tends to be a thing of you can <unk> er aspect or both right yeah i can't either as a wall supplement <unk> aspect adjust google food um coming up right now though right so for some sort of future marketing it's about a half and half um for the past it's again it's slightly more languages have some sort of past marking then do not [noise] um so it looks to me about a half and half distinction for tennis the general where a smaller number of languages make you know remote enough distinction [noise] so it it's not <unk> is by no means uncommon to have a language that does not have tents barking mhm um but neither is it overwhelmingly common [noise] there is just sort of you have it or you don't it's not it's not uh well you it's fifty fifty almost so almost all of it it looks like a slight a slight biased in favor of tends marketing of some sort of but only slightly yeah well i mean if you think about it that way still wouldn't for <unk> it's sort of just it's always up to individual choice but in this case there's no naturalistic reason for you to be biased in one way or another right right um and even languages that had ten might not use it as often as you think mhm english uses present tense with temporally adverb to mark the future a lot mhm yes right so [noise] um the future will is not really that common in spoken english at all right well it's available for when you don't use words like tomorrow or next week <unk> yes william where did you find that map you're looking at because i found something that i'm not quite sure if it's something you were looking out or not is it um you know just lincoln and mentioned <unk> according to ten some aspects uh that's that's not really relevant to our okay i won't mention i was the only reason i thought it might be it because it shows for different doesn't math and it shows um ah one hundred and ninety three thirty six <unk> have some policemen quarter tense ten according to aspects [noise] twenty four according to both and one hundred and twenty three to have none so long yeah that was also they're not the pollution is just uh um um i ah morphological uh correct um whether you use basically a different um groups for ah should the two different ones right go no and went <unk> yeah <unk> <unk> all going to be <unk> ah yeah i was an older person in there but [laughter] or not we're not we're not gonna get into nitty gritty of um morphology here i don't play mhm yeah the um the whole point is that we're shopping a piece of morphology her essay [laughter] or what what would fall from the beach morphology [noise] now um right now they're like um obviously like the uh things like will as a model the trainee future markers or arguably <unk> there's a lot of other are there um languages that have just like <unk> <unk> sure absolutely yeah for even for like past tense short ah that's that's that that just struck me as an interesting idea to bring up even though technically you're not really getting rid of pants that way because it's still a grammatical marketing but like yeah if you gotta worry another leach bleached of all sense except to mark ten than into tend to marker i don't care if it's a separate word or particle or you know a twist of lime mm yeah that is ten i just thought you know you could mention that there's some <unk> i've seen some inventive ways to <unk> or well inventive and con lines i think some of these uh current <unk> but like having a particle or even better marking pants on pronouns ah which have them on the subject what as far as i'm concerned that's just tends marking but for some mysterious rodents marking but you can play around with things too uh it's uh that was just a side note [noise] um do we have [noise] there's really not that much more to say because it's actually two my brain the way it hits me it's really not that difficult to get rid of tense you just kind of i'm sorry yeah you gotta kinda <unk> yeah you just kind of go with that as far as getting rid of tense goes for me i think it's more a question of if you don't have morphological just something that says here this is your past this is your present then how do you go about she couldn't sing those um different events that happened and do you do it by means of aspects or do you do it by means of um sequence things just like first this next this ah that seems to be in a more interesting thing for me [noise] there are multiple strategies and i would expect any given language to use several mhm [noise] there's only there's just one last little highly technical thing i wanted to mention as a possibility were thinking about for those containers who like nationalism is that with in different kinds of verbs different verbs have different internal events structure uh-huh we talk about either lexical aspect or to elicit he mhm kind of an ugly word um so for example [noise] sleep isn't inherently ongoing activity [laughter] sneeze one hopes not [laughter] uh-huh [laughter] or <unk> <unk> um had is t. lake versus sleep which is eighty like in some languages without ten mhm they default unmarked verb might have a different time interpretation depending on this team a city so that for example <unk> verbs might be by default have passed and interpretation whereas lazy like verbs may have a present mm interpretation for example so if we just string together the words i and the laugh the meaning would be i'm laughing but i find the book would mean i found a book yeah that's um i just found that was a <unk> has how you test for tell us the english and uh just a little bit of background on the difference between <unk> right uh my favorite my favorite test is the begin test <unk> you you are already doing the action when you say i begin to axe then it a few like i start to sleep i begin to sleep you're already asleep so that's eighteen like whereas i begin to kick you're not actually accomplished the task yet so <unk> <unk> um this one mentions that uh one way to gauge whether english verbs phrases she look or not to see whether the phrase like in an hour uh meaning you know the <unk> within an hour um can be applied to it otherwise if you'd say for an hour um for example here's an example it says john built a house and among that's fine versus john built a house for a month the built the house it's <unk> they have that market as bad versus john build houses and among sounds a little off whereabouts on build houses for a month is fine because it's <unk> yeah it's really important for english and probably from any language <unk> depends on not just the verb depend on the company that verb is keeping end objects might ah might manner so it mentions having an points going towards that goal consolation it's an interesting uh mentions aspects um and give some examples from finish and ah yeah it's interesting that we don't we don't need to go into the great detailed onto you let's see those who care about these things and look at that and then think about that if you're going to do again if you're aiming at natural isn't you know language that does not have over ten <unk> i mean might wanna think about that 'cause there's some interesting subtleties and possibilities that can go on there now if um if you <unk> if you have a language that doesn't mark we over our language i maybe marks tense and i don't know reported speech and won't market in regular i know it sounds really bizarre but i don't know if they're that was kind of a <unk> and not lines to enough i don't know that sounds very strange to me i don't know if a natural language would do that [laughter] but uh yeah okay i was just you know i i like to ponder those odd little not balls that come around [laughter] but ah i <unk> [laughter] um i'm sort of u._s._a. odd little basketball's what those strange little incidents that come around so yeah um we really have anything else to say um you know after you have any other thoughts to contribute um let's say not really [laughter] [laughter] um well if everybody kind of done with the topic i think we could probably move on to the future on line yeah yeah which is geoff this is your language um pronounce it for me because it's very difficult [noise] play so okay [noise] [noise] <unk> <unk> <unk> okay this is a very difficult because it has a and it jack do beginning a cluster its cage active um and then lateral after africa so the [noise] uh so that's um you you you see it quite well i i imagine your practice this yes um so talk to us a little bit about this language the the inspiration for it and um all that kind of thing [noise] okay well at first should mention that that name doesn't mean anything i i picked it up for the salad huh that's a new line of what i wanted to do mhm what kind of salads i want it and um it's a lot of some sort of a a tribute to eastern north american that lives although it doesn't really it's not really modeled after anyhow i ended up doing my own thing but that was the inspiration for it mm mm and uh i i <unk> um i see i'm a native orthodoxy on here did you have little <unk> before the language or that that come after you make language or develop with the language uh <unk> mostly <unk> after <unk> [noise] that as um [noise] i would have had um l. c. c. too out they say three i rather [noise] lab which they shouldn't conference and mhm or providence <unk> and we had an exercise um we were groups and i was in a group of gym henry [noise] and he started coming up with some glass mhm animal equator yeah later that night i said well this that set of a funny it's not so far climax if i make a bunch of changes <unk> <unk> clay yeah so um i started playing around those that they have signs up a little league field that came up with the um yeah so that was kind enough to [noise] let me uh <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah i wasn't sure i'm i'm the first page where you mentioned the uh <unk> <unk> and [noise] i see that there are several locations you there wasn't sure if you use one while you were making language to make your notes or if it was written in the cons script or um but <unk> it's nice who i thought it was interesting that you mentioned that the languages of the native north east of america influenced these because the phonology to me screams pacific northwest [laughter] yeah well there's a little bit of i think i think some variety is a lie and we've <unk> i'm not [noise] it's been a while since i looked at that i'm not i haven't been working on for about a year or so mhm on getting a bit they take on things [laughter] mhm right so there then of course at the beginning of your chapter on overview more hosting tax you just stay here clay uses a direct inverse system we're the second person first person to person hierarchy and that is obviously very much um what you expect in the northeast so yeah you're kind of a nice mix of transcontinental <unk> teachers no no i did like that i'm moving back really quick to the phonology i did like that you have very detailed um find the tactics uh <unk> specifically which the missile clusters or allowed and um even which mario clusters or allowed uh it's very interesting little thing but moving on or two um sort of different uh morphology and more for some time and such there is there's a lot there um and that there is <unk> how did you say i'm curious to know where you've got inspiration for how you organize this grammar 'cause this is one of the more detailed web page kramer's we've seen i think <unk> it's certainly one one of my more detailed [laughter] i usually uh with just let the aspects without explaining how to use [noise] most of the time <unk> for example um organization uh i uh <unk> just did what seem to work for this language uh-huh i don't always do it the same way mhm [noise] mm well <unk> <unk> one of the points of us you know talking about other people's <unk> in this show is to give beginners or even non beginners ideas about how they can do things to make their crumbling better and more spectacular and [noise] you know attract all the boys and girls and all that stuff is so i really recommend this language is organization um two other people 'cause he covers a lot we've got really nice inter linear which must have been tedious i don't know if you use a web editing tulips you set this h._t._m._l. by hand [noise] like it all the h._t._m._l. by hand ooh gosh iraq just just an award for enduring [laughter] yeah [laughter] well i can copy a lot a lot of the format so that's true that's true but still i think the the results are very nice maybe not in a color scheme i would choose but you know that just doesn't matter yeah i'm <unk> i'm looking through uh trying to look at when did you start this language let's see the page was started on uh the december sixteenth two thousand eight but the historical development hey judgments into loading for me so uh what has this been gone for a long time ah yeah it uh let's see i believe uh last time i really work on it or <unk> that was about a year or so ago mhm hey i worked on and off well i work uh fairly well that's a really odd at one point yeah updates by all the uh by the vocabulary and i i like that they're they're kind of thing [noise] and then um i was i gonna say otherwise [noise] um oh sometimes on here some of the letters are coming up as boxes i guess i'm not sure if the u._s. but anyways that's very nice 'cause you could see if you can't see the one set of um letters you can see the other one so i do kind of like that it's been a couple of different um translations there oh yeah yeah i uh couldn't decide which one do you fly u._s. dollar [laughter] that's one way of doing it [laughter] [noise] like uh <unk> better than me i just have have started to just exclusively use <unk> because i can't be bothered to remember more than one uh frenetic transcription system mm um i noticed that you use <unk> for two things that nifty similar i mean there's i mean we just did a show on redo publication <unk> yes if you look on the beach after an aspect um it's used to mark <unk> so that's expected and the other one is to mark spatial distribution which is also again on a subset of state of hers so it's pretty nasty where's the alert that that was pretty restricted whereas a derivative the bottom of the page oh okay yeah <unk> what are the kobe uh <unk> uh <unk> uh that's sort of a social status it's sort of uh young young man <unk> <unk> ah gets into trouble or next trouble but [noise] when when this when they're <unk> they're the ones that they're the fighting fighting so yeah so did this is this set in a particular kind world or do you just pick these things to add flavors the language [noise] they basically that flavor to the language i plan to do a robot that our world [laughter] that's about as far as that got [laughter] not particular one <unk> makes me think of um <unk> the <unk> what what you're describing the definition makes me think of sort of uh like a tribal society [noise] but um it doesn't have to be in the in the europeans zone there there used to be a standard term for this and that was a wolf [noise] [noise] what i'm talking about or both pack for hordes of young men out for trouble [noise] that's true uh that doesn't necessarily have to do anything i i'm looking through your ah <unk> section and i noticed you have a word town the means to speak understand read or write a language i liked the idea though you just lump all language you into one um term <unk> i don't know how natural it is but it's an interesting concept too [noise] so what does she know reading have you done in languages <unk> at the start of the show you said in school you start out when romance languages in manhattan i mean the german but i <unk> things here like you have a chart i'm a motel page that relate to <unk> make morality i do not expect that of someone who's only study romance languages in latin [laughter] yeah well as i said what if i got on the <unk> [noise] picking up um a lot of [noise] a lot of different stuff here and there since i'm not at a university lemonade on what what <unk> i can lead uh-huh but i try to pick up what i can yeah it really is interesting how much education linguistics <unk> just by the by yeah i tell you what i've learned a whole lot of uh i i think my own experience has been i learned a whole lot of linguistics just from participating in in uh foreign discussions like not even like looking up but finding <unk> or anything it's just there's so many knowledgeable people in the community that are willing to um help you with things and give you a suggestion yes so you have you ever prohibitive [noise] that's interesting that's one that's um mood that i don't see that often um holy cow go ahead what oh is it going to say that if um if i remember correctly we're headed [noise] is basically negative plus <unk> oh really that's <unk> that's not something with it settling <unk> oh <unk> oh i see i don't know i could be wrong though [laughter] [laughter] so do you happen to remember where you got the idea of <unk> [noise] um i think that's why i came up with myself i think you did oh [laughter] well it i mean it's a neat idea i just would never occurred to me too so uh uh pervasive um not really like that related to sue proactive no it means it it has the idea of going through for a long mhm um so in his example this isn't the veil and changing chapter at the bottom one of the examples i walked along the past mhm or i went through the house for their benefits so we have to a play date him wow <unk> is [noise] and it's like it is is a operation that changes the number of arguments <unk> like where you spent most of us have heard of a closet and bright you take an <unk> and you and argument i was sleeping versus i made him sleep uh-huh [noise] and if we could add another argument and there are things like benefactors versus i cook and then you could and the benefactor triplicate if you say things like i cooked pour him mhm or instrumental i play games you know i cooked with a fire [noise] or more interesting i cooked with a laser [noise] this is uh instead of using proposition of phrases you collect something under the verb and you add new argument to arguments structure in denver ah yes i'm very popular in um certain language families and at the very common aerial feature of north american languages um and what'd you say is he admitted to plug it is for the <unk> <unk> right it indicates or right rather than uh fix location um i'm going to say okay one thing that uh interests me that these guys are not as it did in is uh numerals systems and looking at your noodle system it's very interesting uh richest most system well and i like but you boil them a little bit um um i know there there's an alternate form for the word for forty that is um looks could be <unk> but otherwise <unk> these um these um <unk> larger forums seemed to be fairly <unk> i'm not seeing i'm not seeing anything for very large numbers so did you not did you not even go with um whether they go to <unk> ten thousand or <unk> you just wanted to go with the the smaller ones or what [noise] yes i figure that the larger numbers or not that important mm uh and they have a lot i don't know what they are yet [laughter] hey i'm <unk> i'm sorry go ahead no this is just on the numbers page also um that box and i was talking about i can't see it's after uh for number two it's l. e. box because not only without boxes long and by that time they are so oh okay okay yeah see an all around here i guess that's probably the same thing all all or oh okay cool thank you yeah um yeah um like a mac or on for high <unk> um yeah it's interesting it looks like you use different stems for the ordinary numbers <unk> how it works [noise] or the little number well <unk> it looks like there's <unk> uh <unk> depending upon if it's a vow or or if it's [noise] just trying to look through yeah mainly looks like i'm not sure actually but it looks like mainly c. p. o. z. p._o. mhm mm well anyway i just thought it was an interesting um yeah so it's one thing oh go on <unk> oh no god okay one one thing about the numbers but like it is yeah the real words are lower numbers are six eight can fourteen and eighteen if you looked at that section well listen it can't can't look at that's actually the <unk> uh what was it a simple ones and the other number it's half of it aside from london to um that's really interesting thing because selection of choices that's pretty funky mhm i think you might have uh typo in your ordinary number stems because thirteen um unlike every other ordinary which ends in pogo is ending and hope yeah [noise] well i haven't seen also does seventeen oh my goodness nope [laughter] oh no no no that's delivered the team he mentioned that third <unk> yeah the other or <unk> one uh <unk> uh wiped pole or <unk> or <unk> um i'm not sure what that <unk> i don't know what the <unk> yeah well <unk> indicate a specific what a vacation <unk> oh that's right oh i oh got it right right right right okay oh oh ah <unk> other ways just to add the support of looking at suffix which is an interesting thing um but okay so you have different stadiums for um for one what for one is it you just have a <unk> the the first one <unk> makes mhm yeah yeah <unk> <unk> ah interesting i like that uh numerals are inflicted like someone for be like which makes me think of <unk> and other languages of that region and the common pattern so you're the one of us because becomes one nice verb [laughter] wow that's <unk> that's wow so you are interesting <unk> to be the eighth one of a group of us yeah [laughter] wow is is this language thought of as relating to are interacting with any other languages um not not really other than that i think that that were uh borrowed texas the second question first special jack question hierarchy <unk> version [noise] <unk> not really much interaction that goes i don't really know yeah well as the languages language family's all that well oh i mean even with with other languages you invented oh other languages um well although <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> borrowed one way or the other mhm yeah um is back on the ah <unk> there was the fanatics were listed in cue a. p. a. is that something from your <unk> domain or is that something i should know from elsewhere [noise] now it's something i made up okay ah [laughter] it's um [noise] <unk> it's an ass ski fanatic motivation mm i tried to get as much as possible mhm entity <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah that makes you <unk> you made any changes because of the idea is that sort of messy like mhm [laughter] well that's nice and running out of catfish [noise] [laughter] [noise] yeah see there are some uh some uh <unk> uh <unk> marks huh <unk> well <unk> you know what an english will be looked at as that but this is part of a simple so [laughter] um i noticed there's several different ways to form um relatives closes <unk> yeah really where's the relative clause where are the relative club here yeah <unk> you actually just have a a relative pronoun but it has some interesting forums or is it yeah <unk> <unk> <unk> regular relatives on mm oh yeah you have a relative prudent thing and you have these prerogative relative clauses what are these are all about yeah yeah um i have looked at this in a while [laughter] [laughter] i know from time to time where i'm i'm paging through you know some grammar i have not looked a little while i'm like what the hell i'm brilliant [laughter] [laughter] yeah they didn't even remember putting in well anyway there's a whole lot of good stuff we've <unk> uh about a good bit of it but you know there's more to be hand i will have a link to this grammar in soon [noise] it does anybody have final things to say about the the language no apart from this is really nicely laid out um and i recommend it as a model [laughter] and there's some really neat sort of ideas lurking interesting places in the language so i think there's a lot to let him interesting idea is to be had here mhm mm [noise] mike yeah i think it's very um leafing through it like i want a nice book on a sunday afternoon [noise] and it's just keep finding things i'm like ooh wow that's really neat so uh right now i'm available change operation page and it's just to keep finding more and more interesting thing in fact jeff i think i think you should p._d._f. or <unk> [laughter] oh no okay and uh [noise] <unk> hit the way it is william no i'm just thinking of the complete pain in the but it will be two p._d._f. all those wonderful tables mm yeah oh well maybe maybe you need somebody to help you for that [laughter] um [noise] what <unk> what i would go through it carefully i walk to rely is everything mhm uh-huh it's like if i if i tried a p._d._f. advertise it wasn't [laughter] so i mean are you planning to remind what sort of things would you change [noise] <unk> of tightening things up well <unk> things up but you never know [noise] sometimes they say well that's really a word it badly [laughter] <unk> oh you're not going to be like and slapping entire parts of the grammar you're just thinking of normal no cleanup okay okay well what <unk> a lot of work [noise] [noise] yeah yeah it seems like a lot um well i think we can move on to feedback if that [noise] um oh we want to say about that uh i got a very long email from a guy named who coals signs of email j. asked bangs <unk> ah and i don't know if i want to read the whole thing but i'm <unk> how old skirt around here i'm writing a say how much i enjoy your <unk> ah i only became aware of its existence a few weeks ago and since then i've been doing what i'm always do when i discover new pod cats good i like listening to the arc hide from the beginning holy cow ah [laughter] yeah [noise] wow isn't it weird to think that right we've done we just did recently the one year anniversary so that's one that's fifty two episodes approximately an hour that's more than two full days [laughter] fast like way like i was at the end [laughter] which i don't recommend [laughter] oh [laughter] wow yeah anyway anyway okay he says um well basically said he just got <unk> twenty three and discovered that his own <unk> ah had been featured <unk> because it was before we started contacting people about uh <unk> learn languages so uh he did not have any idea that <unk> <unk> um um [noise] he agrees with some of the uh criticisms we had that um and he says ah that some of his problem problems arise a rose from the fact that different parts of the the uh language are designed a different time like i'm the opposite verbal system <unk> little bit of her stuff that he said that the verbal complex they from the all the the more <unk> stage that followed [laughter] that uh he was he um at the time or [noise] so uh [laughter] <unk> [laughter] this is a great send it it's a good i'm quoting it's a good thing i had never heard of evidence reality or enemies see hierarchies at the time i initially designed to verbs or i would dealt with we had found a way to include those as well [laughter] all of the <unk> yeah yeah [laughter] [noise] ah <unk> there's also inspired me to consider other neglected parts of my languages in particular i've been mulling over ways that <unk> expresses formality enrique reconsidering the entire concept the adjectives uh oh yeah not not for <unk> <unk> he must he must be listening to new episodes of that come out as well yeah because the the getting rid of adjectives of it's not so it's a little further and then his last part of you discuss by age it that's that's a an art language rent [noise] when you when you covered my come on and it's very interesting to see how that close to eight ten years on [noise] if you ever were interested in having me on it as as a gift i'd be happy to discuss it or anything else come con line related with you [noise] yeah well maybe it'd be that can have you yeah you on um he has other languages too does me yeah and if you know um but yeah uh i like that we're getting feedback from someone who became a fan of the show and then discovered [laughter] we had already covered their <unk> [laughter] that would be a little bit of a surprise [laughter] well you uh <unk> well well those surprises should be fewer and further between yeah than the future because because where i'm going through a lot of effort to try to contact people but [noise] <unk> anyway i thought that was an interesting little email um jeff do you have any thoughts i i guess it's just kind of uh that that that that's sort of focused on our system [noise] um well anyway i think we can wrap up the episode and you get outta here um so jeff uh i every week i ask these guys in any guess that we have for any sort of final words of wisdom you know a sentence or two of um advice to all the <unk> out there so do you have any final words of wisdom that you you'd like to share with everyone out there listening oh <unk> oh not really um [noise] i've been struggling with my <unk> <unk> oh wow and they go back to work on clay and expand the vocabulary to make it more <unk> mm well that's uh that's that's that's so interesting but um making making uh enough words for your language to be useful but <unk> [noise] that's not something that i tend to do because i tend to not have have only the words that i need for certain translations [noise] now i'm uh i'm sorry um i was a quick question on that um when you made could play what was the um was it just an outline for arts sake or was it for your own personal use um this uh for <unk> sake i guess <unk> <unk> i i believe i used it once in a translation uh-huh we have like a month and only has like a dozen so now so like a lot of work that we have to translate something [laughter] yeah i would guess yeah okay um well william do you have any wisdom [noise] i do actually i haven't recently learned that most languages on the planet have completely unrelated stands for different question words so in in the european languages were used to patterns we're in english everything starts with w. h. or in the romance languages everything starts with a cue or see mhm that is vanishing lee rare outside into into european family <unk> so now you're if you're a naturalistic commoner try not to do that huh which means that uh i you know has a problem [laughter] family every question were starts with [noise] yeah i mean it is true that their languages other than in the in the air into european language to do this but not very many [noise] [laughter] [noise] yeah i had to do some some some retro editing um gosh scientist exactly mhm with them okay my [noise] uh [noise] low <unk> so far so i'm um i'm i'm all over that was the myself i'm thinking okay so i'm going to say happy economize [noise] you've ever been listening to <unk> you can find the <unk> all previous episodes at <unk> dot com including links to our featured on line and a few resources to help you make sense of today's topic you're also find links to subscribe to us on high to door through on our part to our quarter face book and google plus pages a whole lot more questions commonsense suggestions may be sent to con lying or e. s. t. male dot com you can also submit those translated greetings we played the popular show <unk> display in our head or [noise] least c._b._s. contribute paid for detail [noise] thanks for listening [noise] there's [noise] right [noise] [laughter] so yeah bring your mike with you because you sound pretty good yes i do have my my company so and it and i'm sitting on the on the there's a nice little table here so much like right in front and they have a router that not being used by oh everything else in the house like at home oh [laughter] where there's literally <unk> my <unk> my dad has his laptop his odds on my step mom has her laptop her i found my little brother has x. box live <unk> odd um [laughter] my sister has her laptop and then i squeeze my computer on mount rainier so [laughter] it's a little better here [noise] well see we don't have we don't the greetings don't correlate with um whatever the <unk> just one whichever one <unk> people end up sending me which i've gotten more greedy <unk> recently so i'm i'm kind of um a head on those but <unk> or a mix [noise] oakland lungs but he's been sending <unk> [laughter] i just had to have the german one and that's all we need to find a speaker of zoom yes we do [laughter] [laughter] i'll be quite cool in three too but [noise] not yet [laughter] three to wait okay [laughter] i'm now and now we're we're raised again i i was just starting back up recording right ah three two one welcome to con lying or the <unk> about constructed languages and people who create them i'm <unk> how does the server die [noise] a shepherd dies in several ways one <unk> the power supply can get <unk> uh-huh so that happened a month ago and the other problem is if your co location provider mhm manhandled your computer when they fix the power supply though and you have to replace mother boards oh dear [laughter] around here [laughter] so uh and uh and i'm at least for for not be i'm such a paranoid that i download copies of things every week automatically and save the <unk> mm well that's good [laughter] uh let's see <unk> sounds like a <unk> thing to do exactly it is exactly system and thing also for especially early [noise] we were never sure when the heartbeat lawyers have been like some property we're going to get to spend on this i didn't want to lose anything do you do a day [laughter] mhm [laughter] um so hopefully that stuff will be <unk> yeah i remember i was trying to show uh chinese friend some uh stuff on the <unk> stuff and she says oh no this website is blocked in trying to not checked it and i'm like no i can't get to sit down and [laughter] well one thing that surprised me slightly wants to learn that um david peterson himself was using the <unk> [laughter] [laughter] well [noise] you know uh george <unk> martin when he he's he's been writing the the last few uh the uh the more recent of his books has been using a which he of ice and fire

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  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. aspect
  4. conlang
  5. K'tlê
  6. language
  7. linguistics
  8. tense

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 55 Practicum — Getting Rid of Tense (last edited 2017-09-07 21:36:00 by TranscriBot)