Conlangery #66: Conceptual Metaphors

Conlangery #66: Conceptual Metaphors

Published: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 04:35:24 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> [noise] welcome to hungry the project struck instructed languages with people who create them i'm george carlin [noise] with me down the road apiece [noise] is [noise] william annan blow [noise] and uh uh in new jersey do we have a <unk> [noise] [noise] okay [noise] and uh we don't do uh sort of topical preferences but i just like have to mention that uh we're recording this on the day that prisoner osama crash credit yeah [laughter] oh really i don't know about that yeah yeah he did a <unk> on rent it there's this ask me anything did uh did you did one where basically you have you say okay <unk> ask me questions i mean you go through um answer them but when the president of a united states uh once people to ask him questions [noise] a lot of people respond so it's really unbelievable yes um probably tens of millions of people went to read it at least to look at it so it's possible but that overloaded it um just a little [laughter] somewhere uh eighty base crying in a corner [laughter] uh another thing is that uh maybe williams last episode for a while i already have someone lined up for the next episode and then after that um uh we'll probably get to another person it depends on how everything gets worked out but um i will leave those to be surprises for you guys um who the person who's not yes they will be pleasant surprises i'll just say that and so i was thinking just yesterday how funny will be to listen to the test and not know what's happening i mean like not going to be [laughter] oh really yeah it'll be cool i mean i i don't listen to all of our episodes but i do sometimes just in case to to check in case something monumental stupid [laughter] you can leave us alone comments on her name is pronounce thing no probably not but it'd be it'd be kind of fun to like <unk> i didn't know how interesting i listen i've started listening just like from a couple of weeks behind and um i think i just listen to i think it's sixty four and i realized that i said i might write a story to uh help with the <unk> topic it was the the <unk> right 'cause i think um but i never up that story i may and now that you were <unk> you never will [laughter] well maybe before i start classes i might find time to do it as a blood post but uh we'll see um but anyway that's oh irrelevant to today's topic which is um kind of a fun one uh so we are talking today about conceptual <unk> course so um every language has certain sort of metaphors that are like well we all know what <unk> sort of um you can have at heart metaphors in literature in in in even in everyday speech but a lot of languages have sort of almost like baked in matter floors that end up getting extended into idioms and uh sort of vocabulary <unk> and such and i think that's a good way to explain what a <unk> or is that sort of you have a certain concept that define in uh in ways that um in a certain way in number usually <unk> number of different expressions so william i'm going to kick it to you 'cause you have a bunch of um examples of all kinds of different uh medical short um <unk> we're talking about the topic it's obviously going to be pretty mexican heavy and we kind of meeting <unk> reference to to a little bit back an episode of fifty six and growing up execute mhm um and so we're just gonna dig into then i would probably go so far as to say every language has confessional metaphors and possibly quite a number of them they deeply prepaid our entire language sometimes it's the <unk> the [noise] it's so pervasive we don't even notice it until it's brought tour attention um <unk> [noise] one very common conceptual metaphor for example is the time is space is <unk> so pervasive did most of us probably can't even think about time without thinking about it in terms of space and we we did that even <unk> signed came along and said that time is the fourth dimension or whoever wants to be said that yeah um and that's actually sort of there's some sort of submitted a forced to that because there there's um some languages so time is space but some languages we'll have to say you know the future is in front and some little sad the future is behind sure like they were absolutely um i think even though we're talking about language today and uh we mhm they're called cognitive metaphors for reason there or conceptual metaphors reason they're cognitive as much as they are linguistic um mhm example let's say metaphor as well up here in art thinking about cartoon illustration conventions for example so one one of my favorite conceptual metaphors it appears to be more or less universal [noise] is that an angry person is a pressurized container [laughter] which is just fun to say but think about cartoon er er comic illustrations what an angry person looks like their face turns right and they got steam shooting outta their ears um possibly with [laughter] you know a trained whistle going alone [noise] i'm sitting there actually thinking of um also in ah like film and cartoons and like in the monsters i i get the image of in the monsters ah like <unk> steam shoot out of his ears right right so [laughter] and everyone understands that <unk> that he's angry that the metaphor is not just linguistic it presents itself yeah [noise] um george lake off in the seventies and eighties really kicked off the study of this um there's still works going on in it i'm not surprisingly translators have really dug into this because it's it's it's their master translate [noise] we're gonna see a bunch today where if you translate things literally it's going to sound it either going to make no sense there's gonna be so strange that you didn't you attract and bible translators especially so still has published a few papers or had people who public papers like how do you translate the metaphors of the hebrew old testament to do [laughter] yeah but you know it's uh it it it which is a really interesting way to sort of dig into things [noise] um mhm so for the rest of the time we were talking about these metaphors they're usually presented sort of as equation things like happiness or time is limited resource and if you read the print literature and have lots of links um the <unk> you know that this is a metaphor this is not you know something you're literally going to say mhm [noise] [noise] [noise] like all of language there's a whole bunch of ways in which these conceptual metaphors do behave linguistically something <unk> look like they're universal like some parts of grammar may be near the universal so the conceptual metaphor happiness is usually popular um an angry person is a pressurized container is very popular um mhm there's a whole lot about the body it's very cinematic are bottle you responses to certain kinds of experiences generate these medical so certain kinds of strong emotion um are talked about in terms of heat fear into many languages <unk> cold or because of ban so tightly should in our extremities when we're getting ready to run away [laughter] um [noise] and this matches language where and atomic cool metaphor in common i mean i i'm gonna say it occurs and all human languages and i think i'm safe statement mhm um and and just as a random note it seems like eating and drinking <unk> consuming things pop up is source metaphors more often than you might think we'll talk about them more but uh english speakers can certainly think about the metaphor an object of affection is food and you know legion of grannies threatening to <unk> their grandchildren [laughter] yeah just w. down i could eat you up your <unk> that sort of scriptures that sort of foods than flavored talk [noise] yeah um [noise] can touch limited force <unk> spread to sort of like um you know aerial effects so um one interesting example in the middle east and the ancient and middle east the conceptual metaphor was a nation is a flour or uh people <unk> and <unk> things you know compared to people too [laughter] elements of locks the person in charge the king was these shepherd that's luck um and the sixers all over in the age near east and it also <unk> in the elite the odyssey because they were produced or they reached the four and we have them today in the middle east not on the greek [noise] not in greece itself but indian classical greek literature that metaphor never occurs and it stays pretty much i would agree literature until grease becomes christian again and then you know the old testament metaphor start repairing um in the language and the culture when you say locked you mean like a block of cheese or do you mean like a shepherd <unk> lack of lack of sheep sheep workout [noise] okay yeah this [noise] yeah this this uh this is a really common thing in in italy right ah how often it occurs elsewhere yeah like well i mean <unk> yeah you're right that you know like you know someone like o'clock for his people or whatever that you know [laughter] yeah it's <unk> that's exactly that that's i'm presuming that that sort of thing comes from sort of the biblical ideas or you <unk> have descriptions of jesus is [noise] a shepherd for the and and uh his followers are sheep that sort of derives from this middle eastern <unk> exactly exactly but what's the point of making about this it is it's very common in the middle east it appears in homer within sort of disappears from greek culture until they re import middle eastern culture mainly in the form of christianity and and especially the old testament around um uh so even though they're a bunch of things that are pretty universal someone if it's pretty universal they're still an awful lot bit specific to language and even within the language you get socio elect sub culture images and even elect [noise] so my my step father is a mechanic so easy news lots of mechanical um metaphors for example be angry person as a pressurized container a cure occurs in his language when he talks about someone blowing a gasket [laughter] um and i had my father is has worked with dairy cows all of his life so his language is full of metaphors idioms relating to come out and surprising degree cow newer [noise] um [noise] [laughter] a lot of wisdom and it's a very rich um rich source [laughter] matter of [noise] sure [laughter] right it's a fertile [laughter] [laughter] and um just like [noise] words and phrases in the language they can be subject to reenactments <unk> um or the expression of them the the overt expressions of a metaphor can be reanalyze so one of my favorite examples is these days anyone who hasn't obscure are weird hobby might talk about coming out to their friends about participating in that hobby [laughter] without the without necessarily any implication that it is quite a terrifying it's coming out you know for being gay but that's obviously the source of that that image yeah <unk> <unk> <unk> we both of you what does that mean coming out i mean what do you think the source idiom the source metaphor <unk> um of course uh [laughter] they get like well of <unk> like in someone you know they'd have um hiding was dumped like being in the closet right right so <unk> right right but that that in fact and i don't know how to phrase started out huh <unk> before the game right sort of moving started in the seventies eighties coming out that phrase referred to shoot debutante culture you are now yeah so you you are coming out into a society and the culture that would accept you and then you wouldn't move onto new part of your life it was definitely not definitely not making a public declaration but then <unk> all the becoming <unk> had to be reanalyze and coming into the closet so we have we have a metaphor switch happening around a particular expression <unk> certainly linguistically <unk> given a metaphor can be ran line [noise] um and uh i think that these metaphors are the best way to embed culture into a language yeah you don't you don't need weird words necessarily or weird pronoun come up with a new set of conceptual metaphor that to me seems the strongest weights you [noise] really stamp a culture into a language i try to do that mhm yeah yeah if you have something but [noise] but it's very common in a culture you can have it be the source for over a whole lot of different metaphors <unk> sure um i i can't i'm trying to think of specific example i'm blanking but yeah it does [noise] one so that i was working on what kind of like um [noise] like <unk> the new security and safety either or so that gives medical it's such a you know if you're the the thought of talking about trees being you know for being bark or talking about it uh you know using i guess they're <unk> environment they're comfortable with and <unk> um most of the day type that environment shore come through in china ooh [noise] so i <unk> and actually i'm developing two descendent languages for that but um i just realized i really should get working on this like the spirits quote unquote that were the spirit <unk> that live that speak the language [noise] live in the air so i should put a whole bunch of when <unk> probably yeah i also have it where the word fir tree is the same as the word for spirit because they're not very strong hide the nature and there's a whole bunch of medical was based on that ah almost you know <unk> coming from that same sort of not sure um so one of the the big um metaphors in <unk> currently is the face is um the container for honor and respect so all sorts of idioms half things happening to people's faces which sound very uncomfortable that have to do with you know people respect and social interactions rather than actual their face getting <unk> thing [noise] mhm um many image sources may map to the same target so when we talk about the conceptual metaphors we have the source which is that typically sort of physical thing that we're going to use as a matter for for the target so we're gonna talk a lot about anger today because people like to study that and in in all the different languages that i've run across um in researching this episode i've seen anger as cheap a wild animal and opponent a burden insanity a weapon and illness and food which you either consumer spit out [noise] and you can <unk> you can have multiple these in a given language [noise] um and they might fight and overlap an interesting way mhm um right [noise] what are we going to say and then i guess the last twenty wanna make before we start getting into talking about these [noise] we're not talking about as george <unk> earlier one off metaphors for the most part we're talking about a quarter metaphor generate an entire collection of expression um for example the um metaphor happiness is uh generate things like in english jump for joy being high spirits don't be a downer someone's walking on air oh cloud nine yeah right <unk> where in <unk> which means high spirit or your spirits right in right in in <unk> actually like getting off the ground is associated with pride so people do not jumped for joy in mandarin oh attack right 'cause that would be boasting [laughter] and then and then i read it got a funny examples from hungarian it's funny because it's impossible to translate english and sound right um it literally means this film threw me up like talked me into the air i taught me to their sport meaning it made me happy to fill made me happy but it obviously threw up in english time like something um [noise] yeah [laughter] and um and and some of these <unk> may only generate a few fixed expressions whereas some may be very very productive now is this the team <unk> that seems very tied into i guess figured of language but i think i suppose the other line underlying um <unk> we're talking about is that there is a threat that can be traced that you know themes all the speaking of language that happened or behind the scenes and the people who come from the images and the imagery in the similarities and all those artistic expressions of it are <unk> these ah nifty metaphor that we're talking about right it's common in certain kinds of artistic language to take these metaphors and run with them further um than people yeah you and they're normal day to day speech but some of these are not it all figured if i mean some are so you make of it it's it's hard even to think about that meant to our <unk> it's almost impossible even recognize that we're using a metaphor unless someone you know picks it up and shakes in front of your face for a few more [noise] yeah it it it becomes as i said at the beginning it becomes very much into the language so that you don't realize what you're exactly same um [noise] <unk> one thing that always surprised me is and this is apparently a common conceptual metaphor and that is and this is really low level which is states are location in by states i mean things like being sick or you know various kinds of state of concept so both english and ancient greek you could describe yourself as being in danger right and nobody even thinks about that as metaphorical right and it it strikes me is weird 'cause it i'll be in danger why am i in danger that seems like an idiot but it's not an idiot it's an expression of a larger more systematic used conceptual <unk> metaphor that uh state is a location not also like one in huh sure absolutely right but now <unk> uh-huh gone in love is a specific [noise] uh a very specific sort of type of love steak or something i don't know sorry never mind oh is that um <unk> love is there a is there a matter of poor behind that is there anything is there are there are other emotional states that involve you falling or moving physically um i think so i think it mentions that uh i think i ever oh memphis later um were changing the state are uh i think it's um actual bugging her foreign labor um there are a few of them have <unk> dumb blow but um i think that the most part of that is almost like a layer of metaphor in there yeah um i'm in the old fashioned theological language you can sometimes talk about people falling into error ah yes falling over him grace yeah that is why i kinda so some kind of movement that it's thought of is falling and that they're the idea is it still motion you know state uh uh uh state is location is still the generating metaphor but you're you have falling which is something that happens outside of your control okay i found that we know what i'd change is i'm like yeah yes yeah mhm yeah <unk> yeah um i well i come and interesting uh use that you could have for the uh sort of outside of proper <unk> is um say you know a lot of people who are <unk> also are interested in writing fantasy about their their invented cultures [noise] you could in order to sort of represent a little bit of the culture and the language and in times when you're representing your con line as english for purposes of the the the uh story relevant dialogue you could import those cognitive metaphors <unk> or just import uh the surface results are those <unk> into the english right there was one uh fantasy series i read about half of the four i found it too brutal and stopped <unk> they had a very very um religiously oriented society in one phrased that got sent very often which was they said that that you were in the <unk> [noise] mhm okay that's really interesting <unk> detrimental going on there and that use and similar kinds of phrase really you know conveyed the difference of this culture without distracting you with strange words um right cleverly done even if i from the book a little too brutal [noise] one thing i was in such a look where we get too far away from the in love thing uh we were mentioning translation and i know like we were saying how if you <unk> <unk> um expressing their medical or outside of the language they came from you may get very <unk> result um accuracy like if you try to stay in chinese or spanish at the moment and love it might sound like you're saying that they're in this place called loving it wouldn't have that same uh connotation because the metaphor isn't there for that one yeah you can't you can't you can't say in chinese someone <unk> sounds really really bizarre for it but um like a perk level ah bigger though like if someone said in spanish you know start in a more [noise] that you'd be like [laughter] <unk> place [noise] and that's even worse [noise] yeah <unk> yeah [noise] i mean and my oldest is my guess is chinese and spanish both have a you know states our location for it they it just is going to be expressed differently than you know <unk> and plus they <unk> yeah yeah actually it's like a bird in iraq and i'm <unk> so <unk> is literally and i'm more but the <unk> right or is it are <unk> are smoke free they've yeah yeah it's yeah um and uh chinese actually has an odd one for falling in love um the one version of the term i think it's uh one version of the term it's actually not falling but going i shop so right sort of love up to somebody oh that's neat <unk> here's another interesting thing when you with the um the metaphor or the free if someone's head over heels now you know that i'll be he's over head over heels for that girl or a guy or whatever um kind of odd because we think about your head usually over your field but i don't know well that's all that again that's a lack of control metaphor um a very uh conceptual metaphor across the planet that <unk> is insanity yeah yes which i'm not going to argue with um [laughter] so i think that part of that again that sort of a combination of something a bit delirious going on in also lack of control yeah um go ahead george ah i just wanted to say but i <unk> i think chinese actually has a lot of ah cases where a change of state is moving awkward okay <unk> as opposed to just moving so you could even attached like certain a certain direction to the motion uh in order to to make to uh make things a little bit more unique you know certain language yeah i'm not seeing that discuss but i have noticed in various languages around the pennant that entrance into his state is often presented as a manifestation of a plant like activity like something comes up out of the ground um or yeah it's uh it's it's sort of something becomes apparently the senses and going to someplace abstract is also often uh moving up in <unk> in <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah i go to school things like that okay yeah [noise] um so now i mean i just have a list of these metaphors some from english some from other ideas that i just was able to collect and trying to <unk> they were interesting um it's a pretty small list hundreds helping collect just for english i'm <unk> i'm guessing that they're <unk> you know right it might go up to a thousand or more for an actual natural language but at the study of this is so new um than <unk> you know there's there's lots of corners that haven't been explored yet um we mentioned already time is space is very common so much that i have a hard time thinking about time and and the other way than as metaphor ugly math on the space [noise] um [noise] most languages but the future in front of us in the past behind but if you do it otherwise [noise] um another coming uh conceptual metaphor is tyne is motion um <unk> and in english we can say the right time 'cause arrived and you can say exactly the same thing in hopi mhm um [noise] ah one that mike found it pretty common certainly in english but i think it occurs elsewhere which is the argument in the war yeah anything adversarial can can be attached to war even like you know in our modern capitalist society often businesses war oh shoot um and and it's interesting i'm not really talked about that much but several papers are easily found online where people talk about the conceptual metaphors discussing the economic class we had a few years ago [noise] [laughter] oh really right so the the dutch apparently think about things differently from the chinese or the american [noise] even just talking about uh the <unk> economic collapse of the <unk> the economy out of the building a structure <unk> the economy something physical <unk> there'll be seen as a change or um you know the story but and you know it's <unk> not referred to collapse or you know something being built up together like sure period apparently a common conceptual metaphor in chinese is the stock market is ocean butter [laughter] so you haven't met a force of navigation but also disastrous tides bad weather all sorts of nautical terms use in <unk> indiana i market [noise] um yeah [noise] uh one that i just thought was great 'cause it's so pervasive in the language is in hmong h. m. o. n. g. uh language spoken indochina and large cartoon it's constant in minnesota [noise] um yeah [laughter] [noise] a life is a threat so that the verb cut is used expressions for giving birth for dying in for killing people wow isn't there isn't it also greek mythology um yeah i mean we're we're we're somewhat familiar with that idea ingredients it's not really alive metaphor i mean if you're being sort of literary you might use it if you had that background but it's not a light metaphor in english or any western things that i'm aware flowing english you can say i did was it was kind of sure yeah and there's a few of them but it it's not it's pervasive right mhm we we're not going to say no one was cut to say they're born [noise] no no and and and it's extends into really interesting way i mean we've talked about so you know asian languages east asian languages having measure words are class fires [noise] do you just can't say three or something you can't say this something you have to say three major word object or this <unk> object be measure word for life <unk> life in <unk> it's the same as the one for strength [noise] oh really so the <unk> actually met her forehead extended itself into the semantics of the class system non english i knew for merit higher or not <unk> being <unk> together i know there was uh the the whole ceremony with actual during certain religions and they're yeah i don't know if that's alive metaphor i can't think of any other i mean they do it my family correlation but i think that's probably a a <unk> metaphor from when people actually did like tied their sleeves together uh-huh um yeah i don't know i i'm just trying to think of other expressions for matrimony that would have anything fried like record like about them and i can't oh hand at least not in my my <unk> [noise] she don't look go yeah it had <unk> they actually start that <unk> maybe some stray america thing or something i don't know <unk> <unk> <unk> that <unk> yeah the no [laughter] we can <unk> the history of marriage and the western world is something we can discuss off line [laughter] that's complicated [laughter] yeah um [noise] but anyway i just really thought that was interesting how the conceptual metaphor was in trained into the essentially the gender system to classes to most of the of the language um i thought that was [noise] [noise] yeah and and if you create a language like that this is opportunity for fun [noise] one thing you have a uh mentioned much and you do have one reference to it ah is conceptual metaphors involving body parts like you have an example here from indonesian happiness is they blossoming liver how'd that her damage [noise] which is which is which is like floral and body parts of the same job right so yeah [noise] i mean there are a few like actual anna comical on typically the bodies conceptual lights at something and sometimes you know things that can centralized body parts that's certainly true yeah um yeah the indonesian one happiness is a block me liberty is great because first of all unlike you know much of europe where the heart to see the motion not all of europe mentioned um deliver is a seat of emotions apparently for indonesian huh yeah blossoms and flowers or commonly associated with positive emotion so chinese has flowers that bloom into harvard <unk> which has located logan deliver or emotion positive emotion litter and decided to deliver blossoms which i can't i have to say blocked remember is not a phrase i care much for those you different um centers of emotion and [noise] i know that some languages put uh the center of emotion in the stomach to uh <unk> also yeah yeah uh a few will actually not put not uh emotion in the heart but um hot into the heart or something like that and um yeah <unk> is that really the famous cognitive <unk> another um kind of cultural <unk> uh you know that's an interesting question i mean they are so often and trained into conceptual metaphors that i'm prepared to talk about them that way [noise] um yeah <unk> something of a debate i mean lay cough i think some of his subsequent research i think uh some hungarian do [noise] tries to claim that most or all of metaphor is in fact cinematic it's about in body <unk> everything is related to our experience lived in a body innocent stations we experience being the body [noise] and and some people are not quite prepared to say that [noise] um and i don't i don't think we are the people to talk [laughter] [noise] um before we get too far from the uh you mentioned the case or not case but uh the <unk> the non classes <unk> chinese measure word um i think i remember in uh they <unk> they <unk> in the uh australia they have um <unk> yeah i'm one of those non <unk> women water fire myron an exceptional an exceptional animals together among class yeah so i don't know if that lightening the flyer environments together and i don't know the women and water how you got [noise] so they call through an entire giant book about this very issue called women firing dangerous things where he explores all of these issues [noise] um in tremendous and sometimes dumped in detail [laughter] it it's been a very long time since i've read that book so i'm i'm not prepared to say anything more about that yeah um but is that is an interesting idea of the mountain classes could start incorporating some cognitive matter of course um i don't know to what extent that would happen well it might it might be quite convicted given enough time yeah um [noise] are we ready to move on just to keep going with their list a fun thing yeah sure yeah sure so we have one that's kind of neat in english the darkness the solid so we'll talk about how you know the darkness was <unk> it was impenetrable <unk> <unk> you know and there's things like that [noise] [noise] <unk> um in english there's a whole bunch of um metaphors that conceptual <unk> surprising things as possession for example beliefs are possessions i hold certain beliefs he cling to believe he shares don't give up your <unk> [noise] um obligation are procession it's out of my hands now um [noise] or you know i distributed duties i gave him gave him responsibility [noise] um that sort of stuff um properties are possessed show i think very interesting she has a nice sense of humor um uh he has a strong sense of <unk> stuff like that again a lot of this stuff is stuff that you would not actually think of is metaphorical when you say he's my tolerance for alcohol <unk> he he gave his son a sense of self worth [noise] we don't we don't think about those <unk> [noise] i think in the north east of figured of language and being um you know i guess i don't think about it under the umbrella uh um concept <unk> but it's almost like you know you can all the all the doctors cussing honest they'll just as more colorful language right but you know different cultures may conception that differently exactly yeah yeah um so there's a bunch of those there's are interesting um getting back to an enemy i found a cheap one in bask um which is that a small quantity it's an eye [laughter] so the <unk> big i actually mean fish and you would say she gave me an eiffel of wine actually made he gave me a little wine [laughter] so madly image the image for eiffel of wine is very disturbing [laughter] for us but for best to just means a little bit and they <unk> [noise] a small community and they <unk> not going to be surprised [noise] um yeah so what did i thought it was kind of cute from turkish is based on the med afford that uh body it's a container now that it's crossed linguistically very common yeah our bodies contain things all the time um but <unk> just say they're going to use the word for jar [noise] for all sorts of things so you would say someone who's smart the jar knowledge someone who secretive with the jar secret [noise] um somebody's having problems in a jar of trouble um love <unk> i edit the phrase jar of nerves but i don't know if that meant that someone was um [noise] irritated or irritating [laughter] in one of the country but of course of turkish <unk> irritation oh really yeah so you know we have this sort of an english right he gets on my nerves that sort of thing or right there right so i mean that's fairly common uh one but it seems to be a little bit more active and turkish um another really common reading beauty common conceptual metaphor is life is a journey and sort of a sudden metaphor <unk> weather is the degree of hardship um so that you can <unk> you want to insult someone you can just wisdom bad weather and you're not [laughter] <unk> when you're when you're you're wishing bad luck fortune um <unk> and these dirty metaphors again are very very common <unk> certainly english we even talk about you know um a stormy [noise] life and stuff like that [noise] um another one from english which is pretty common it's purposes our destination um the phrase we aren't there yet to describe you know completing <unk> it's really good one [noise] um [noise] in chinese ended other cultures an idea is a building [laughter] these are these are um translations from chinese you can say that the frame is loose the framework is loose <unk> idea that little problematic the foundation of an argument we construct <unk> english in chinese so that's a pretty common one [noise] um i've already talked about the stock market and the blooming liver [noise] indonesian anger is a dangerous animal becomes wild and ferocious into taxing [noise] wow [noise] yeah yeah and then some of these you're like why do we have is an english setter <unk> an obvious it seems obvious ones has brought the attention that that would be a good medical care for that [noise] i think in english sometimes we have an angry person is a dangerous animal but i i don't know if that really uh <unk> to the level of sacramento court often sort of one off [noise] you know that that guy is like uh a raging tire [noise] sure i don't know you can talk about um emotion sense of um like the anger consumed and i'm not sure that they like the question <unk> i don't know that they're a little weird but anger anger was consuming him or you know something somebody i can think of ah ah depression consuming someone [noise] but i don't think of that as relating to an animal i take them that and um i don't know the the emotion being sort of some sort of like something that surround the person [noise] yeah i don't know it might you know yeah it's it's hard sometimes to know where where these things are coming from and it's so hard to different angle and went off from from more systematic kinds of things yeah um yeah but the the interesting one talking about some anger consume <unk> there is again it's just eating in consumption metaphors is a very common and they pop up and surprisingly [noise] but you know an animal either there's not an animal doing um it doesn't really come in one is that emotion is a fluid in the container <unk> most commonly english we hear about emotions that overflowed now well i was thinking the troops or say like an emotion drain someone of their strength [noise] i don't know if that's really can fluid 'cause the strength is not necessarily the motion but um regulated vitality as uh you know vitality as a fluid i think <unk> interesting that that might [noise] i can't think of any more examples in english but i would guess that there might be some floating around if i had more time to think about [noise] um and then my <unk> added a bunch and this is great because these are the the scariest of the metaphor [noise] um and then he he actually i think this is the hungarian dude booked a metaphor and culture and these are event instruction event structure metaphors oh there were lots of money but it's easier yeah and and but these are so fundamental that it's hard for us to even realize that amount of four is going on [noise] states our location we've been talking about they are in low changes in state our movement she went crazy [noise] <unk> um action is a self propelled emotion we've taken the first step mm we're not actually stepping we're talking about everything [noise] um [noise] purposes or destinations we talked about that right he finally reached his goals um and difficulties are impediments or obstacle right let's get around this problem and that's so fundamental to us that it's hard to realize that it's a metaphor but why should yeah that's my why should my inability to remember how you know most of my chinese characters be conceptual life is something in the in my way and yet that's how we do so very naturally uh-huh ah yeah that's the <unk> that's sort of the uh mike what are you trying to do you already have the lincoln [noise] do i i don't know i can find the the link and i know there was linked to the the books are trying to find that i found uh well i don't know you just put it in there it's just that it was on that i'm the one that i found regionally so anyway getting back into the discussion yeah those those ones that are that are listed there um [noise] seemed like the hardest one to get into to realize oh i need to think about what this uh [noise] i think um i've been thinking this for for a while now and i went to uh sort of modify and reiterate something i've said before when you are translating tax [noise] it's very important that as you are going sentence by sons raised by phrase you think we are very carefully about how your language is going to express this stuff as opposed english and these cognitive metaphors aren't important tool to think about so that you don't you you can go further and further from relaxing english and you don't say someone is in love someone hasn't reached his goals you reach and find some other metaphor to express that [noise] not in every case in some cases you there's likely to be coincidence [noise] but just be aware of the fact that these are these these canby metaphorical yeah of <unk> kinds of accidental relaxes an accidental smuggling of our native language and <unk> these have got to be the most subtle than we've ever tried to but i i i think i did one i mentioned this on the show before but i remember um when i saw the the the the phrase in the text that i'd written actually that i was translating to make peace and i realized that sort of um a metaphorical sort of a new stadium addicts thing to say and i decided to switch it to to promise peace or something like that [noise] sure but what if we decide that peace is a luxury is a garden [noise] then you might plant <unk> you might <unk> yeah <unk> yeah <unk> <unk> there's something yeah something that's like normally free flowing like uh like a bird you might released being there you know make sure yes three um if <unk> it might be a kind of river i mean there's all sorts of things you could do [noise] yeah i i know the [noise] mine was sort of actually a literal <unk> but you know you could put all sorts of metaphors onto it um pieces and emotion i don't know what you would do exactly <unk> yeah well that men [noise] figure out later maybe i should have got to be like getting a matter of four right do you have to do a second medical for them and the only happens right you you get metaphors that interact with other minutes wars are generally other better for [noise] um and it's probably obvious these conceptual metaphors can work their way into literary language that can be used on in language play in funny way like we talked a while ago about how states are possession um and it just reminds me of the internet i mean for a while talking about something was full of wind or full of losing [laughter] full of fellows would fail right that sort of stuff um states are possession um two years ago a friend of mine or a couple that i know um they were expecting a child um and i was talking with the wife and i use it very very old fashioned were and i said that she couldn't she should be kept on the stairs because she's grab it which is a tremendously old fashioned which were pregnant she said yes i have the <unk> [noise] [laughter] well [laughter] yeah [laughter] right so she turns grabbing an adjective into a position that she had with the group is he or she turned [laughter] but now which i <unk> no no that which i love [noise] so i i wanna know something i've heard uh occasionally <unk> pregnant women uh sort of jokingly refer to their baby as a parasite and uh i wonder if any language has <unk> <unk> actually it's not productive conceptual metaphor yes imagine their future culture in which they're only <unk> it'd be alien movies [laughter] [laughter] very modern conception <unk> so much [laughter] yeah it is it is very modern i guess but it's it's it's <unk> it it it's uh it sounds like an interesting metaphor but it obviously hasn't taken off so much because it's still just a joke yeah lots of people who love babies might object strenuously to that particular [laughter] so but one thing i want to mention in terms of coming up with your own conceptual metaphors is ah the thing that really turned me onto these incoming <unk> john <unk> at the first language creation conference years ago and i said to talk and i've included a link to the talk again and his power point slide and he has a page he's got about <unk> four or five five slides about conceptual but of course he talks a whole bunch of cognitive stuff in general but conceptual metaphor is just five slide and on his last page you had to list of ones that he thought would be fun to play with my favorite is love it it's using a bomb [laughter] love is not the bomb love is the few that are using them um that's a funny um the family is a jungle uh life is music life is war emotions or zoo animals right he just sort of came up with one you know you might as well do that it it has to make sense especially if you're <unk> right the culture has to have the thing that you're making a better for about [noise] yeah you you need you need to have the [noise] something you have to have it culturally relevant so uh a culture that is pretty modern will not have the mechanical metaphors that that william right talking about earlier right that is [noise] a hyper intelligent rates of space squid you know are probably not going to have the same confessional metaphors they'd have to do with the bottle yeah there there's a big [noise] if if you have aliens with weird physiology you <unk> you have a lot of room to work with [laughter] if you if you have the time i mean [noise] there are certain subjects that we've discussed on this show that scare me a little um an athlete reference fairly scary original and we did but this subject absolutely terrifies me because there are literally hundred already at the detriment of course just for english we should have been investigated by linguist a very short i'm sure there are thousands an awful lot to think about it's already hard enough to come up with a mexican with more than a thousand words now i have to come up with a thousand or more consensual metaphor right it's a it's a little daunting [noise] so how do you [laughter] [noise] go ahead george well what were you going to ask i guess i was going to move on to the next thing is how on earth do you work these into your <unk> how do you managed it as a language inventor [noise] i think my question would my ideal would be is [noise] the same way that you do lex common for me a lot of the the <unk> building comes from doing translation [noise] and maybe as you're doing translation you can hit upon a particular metaphor and then riff on that for a little bit but um [noise] you know it don't just i don't i think it's not something you sit down and do all at once oh good no no no no no not all at one i'm not no i mean even even not something that you want to sit there and spend several weeks on trying to to get all your metaphors out i think it's something that you do as you go along and occasionally uh you know sometimes you do it and you need to as you feel you need to put him in some sort of metaphor and then occasionally maybe you <unk> one that you really want to play around with and you riff on that make several different expressions out of it yeah um in terms of keeping track of things i actually now have a section in or near my mexican explaining general semantic principle just sort of across the board but that would include a bunch of <unk> and i come up with them um was reference <unk> thinking about what we said earlier you know if we we have some goal in mind and at work say and then our boss my thing but we're not there yet when dictionary <unk> explain to you what that means yeah if you are because actually the four is way out there you should probably define it as as if it weren't idiom [noise] there are a small number of dictionaries intended for a second language learners that actually are starting to do this in natural language is now um 'cause they're in actual research indicating that it makes it easier for students to learn what can be very <unk> um if it's one of them too they're scared of a coherent um metaphorical system [noise] kind of miss [noise] what i usually do for mine is um [noise] i a lot of times i ended up thinking about if i were going to <unk> make a journal entry or described you know what some of the day or some <unk> quotation or try to use the <unk> trying to think about um the speed as the language and what they might like in two in a in a theater manner <unk> mind would tend to be or they tend to be just for one group of people a certain area so it's not necessarily like some desert <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> may have the same references that they [noise] people who live in a very <unk> you know fully vegetate in the area code vegetation foliage so um i try to keep [noise] you know in my mind where am i speaking with coming from and what would be committed to them and there'd be most likely to use those kinds of image in those kind of metaphor near speech sure well yeah like um like williams sort of made up example of pieces a garden <unk> all only works if you have a culture that is a tradition of uh agriculture and gardening so <unk> complex [noise] yes and i <unk> if you're you know imagining you know fantasy land ferries <unk> living in harmony and they're not gonna need that [noise] mhm [laughter] [laughter] that's a boring con culture though [laughter] oh no it provides opportunity for them to get an ugly surprise than your attention [laughter] um [noise] oh they're <unk> <unk> at the very least you you might want to start making a list of cognizant of course that you're using in your language if only to help you generate your dictionary you don't have to publish them necessarily um some of them might be pretty obvious <unk> as you said some of these conception metaphors appear to be practical universal [noise] um and and and and like i said i had been starting to you know include these things as though they were idioms [noise] you know i mean they they are kind of it in there kind of generate idioms in the sense that the literal translation doesn't necessarily makes sense um for what i'm not actually being express [noise] i was actually going to say that um [noise] they're not they're not you know the same as an indian but [noise] it [noise] um having conceptual metaphors ah i see [noise] you know thinking about <unk> [noise] will allow you it will give you a more systematic approach to generating sort of idiomatic way of eggs i know yeah idiomatic ways of expressing cause you know <unk> you have some sort of systematic way of <unk> it's sort of weird to think the metaphor is systematic but it kind of it is in this well this particular yeah i mean well i mean the metaphor itself may not be the metaphor itself is just the facts right right but once you've got it it can be used to generate all sorts of metaphors then that can be fairly systematic or not right and i said some metaphors are very productive and some are less so so one thing i'm planning have not fully developed for <unk> um there are a number of common conceptual metaphors than imagine things as journey life in danger and i decided just at random um because the interest me most journeys happened on rivers <unk> idioms related to rivers is going to be involved so somebody's can sacramento hard times could be like a river rapid or short or well industry it's pretty <unk> yeah yeah difficult to uh sort of sort of difficult her crazy times you could be rapids and sure you know you could also have calm waters and all sorts of the time [noise] <unk> [noise] one thing um i kind of try to do with this is it for one another area having conceptual medical help what is it can really save you making a whole new words if you just have um you know you'll be metaphors in place you can basically kind of double dip with your words like um i was coming up with words words out into a job and i thought uh basically a company is the body so the <unk> the head and you could talk about the company consuming where you know eat needing to eat and sleep that for the war and uh you know that are coming up with new words for all these [noise] if you stay in it i <unk> i <unk> i use that as flying because that you know they're the proper word <unk> slightly called the bus you know the head which isn't that far out but yeah um they can help you either in generating you know <unk> generating new phrases or expression using what you already have in your language yeah i mean this really does float slightly above i mean it's <unk> it's definitely we're talking about electrical issue but it's sort of higher level [laughter] lexical behavior it's not just coming up with a word yeah another way to really think about how those words you use [noise] mhm and too and richness to those words and one is things like lift me having additional meaning but you know in training particular words into conception before is another way to enrich that word um instead of having to come up with yet another new word maybe you can use something you've already got to express whitney [noise] uh i think ah sometimes you you can you can see [noise] at least you know and a lot of ah well i'm sure it happens in the real world but i see a lot even uh more strongly expressed in like certain types of fiction oh hey government is a body and like the the head of state is a head and someone who's like uh someone who has has a lot of power underneath that person is like the right hand things like that and uh <unk> does he [noise] writers or rock or <unk> corruption or does he <unk> he didn't even use the disease language which can be a little [noise] a nasty i'm um certainly in the red scare in america communism was done with the uh kind of virus or contagion [noise] [laughter] <unk> attacks on a nation can be a disease that somehow leads me to the the the the <unk> quote where he said the uh the japanese are disease with the skin and the communist started disease at the heart [noise] right sure i mean <unk> the very common right to the the the the nation is is a body it's a very <unk> very very common and <unk> um um uh channel i have i mean it's like i said i <unk> [laughter] anyway yeah [laughter] um what did they say i have a whole bunch of links many of the papers are only partially about central metaphor specifically um and i tried to pull in a few languages i didn't talk much about the food metaphors in either persian or iraqi arabic but those are kind of nice when [noise] and uh you know uh there's a really interesting paper but we haven't talked about um about new developing mentoring conceptual metaphors about what the internet [laughter] wow so some of the metaphor is related to do um books which is not terribly surprising [noise] oh i know one a forum throughout his a building right um so buildings books and public transportation or a <unk> uh common source metaphors um for the internet yeah chinese so again just stop to look at you ideas yeah um yeah so i'm going to [noise] why don't we move onto feedback 'cause we've talked this topic did that uh uh i'm i'm sure you guys won't object to that [laughter] so uh [laughter] as my pipes in from his wouldn't tunnel anyway [laughter] i don't i i don't know of listeners will will ah ah here that in the final we'll see um [noise] uh i got this kind of hilarious uh email that says uh <unk> uh forgive my poor japanese um by strongman aside [noise] ah came in a while ago but i just now got two uh two reading it i was <unk> i met to read it last recording but i i missed it and it says hey starch <unk> hey staunch champion elegant this pot test is <unk> is its name being awesome is it <unk> [laughter] this show combines great informative talk on linguistics and language can structure with <unk> and approachable town and approachable time actually ah they could even make the effort to devote time to feed back well praise and criticism the outtakes city and also never fail to a smile on my face <unk> uh i once thought con lying with a lot easier and then since abandon [noise] most of my previous sketches or extreme <unk> and with my freshman year of university looming i doubt i will have much time <unk> year future especially as a physics major [noise] but you guys <unk> give me my weekly con lying fix and so that i think you might giving some great terminology and new ways of thinking of your talks have even made my studies of japanese easier keep up the great work guys love jacob and i'm not going to try to pronounce but maine yet and they ah jacob and then he gave what's supposed to be an i. p. h. transcription of the name but it it fairly appalling it's like a click you either inject him [noise] and [noise] <unk> something that might be a bottle and that weird swedish h. thing yeah [laughter] i'm not going to [laughter] [noise] i <unk> i i i'm not sure what he's he's going for the uh [noise] anyway that person thinks we're awesome that's good entertainment mhm this review was helpful and [noise] and [noise] <unk> okay [noise] um so that's that's the show uh [noise] now william since this may be the last time we have you on for a while better make this a good one [noise] so what are your final words of wisdom cultivate your dictionary [noise] that's okay and my um [noise] well <unk> is a very good on um i say when you're coming up with these <unk> conceptual metaphor than when you're working you know develop how you're going to try to put yourself in the shoes of your <unk> the ah the use of the language but here's <unk> their shoes brinkley [laughter] exactly [laughter] [noise] um [noise] what's this other issues because if you find a translator language somehow some perspective [noise] just like the you just like with the <unk> native language natural language [noise] how you run the risk of it sounding like non is teachers and if you do put yourself in their shoes and try to [noise] see the world through their um their point of view [noise] it will give you much richer and the must more [noise] <unk> [noise] i <unk> i am i am starting to get a bunch of ideas for <unk> whomever force for various [noise] <unk> so [noise] this is been a very good discussion [noise] so [noise] with that i'm going to say happy time line [noise] thank you for listening to con lingering you could find our our car insurance <unk> dot com you can send questions comments poor topic or featured language suggestions [noise] to con lying <unk> jeeze mailbox off [noise] to submit a con lying or nightline greeting for the top of the show [noise] c. r. contribute page for detail [noise] web space for <unk> provided by the language creation society and our steam music is by no device [noise] [noise] yeah i could say all sort of uh very insensitive things now so i won't [laughter] that's <unk> the topic itself is kind of straightforward and a weird way is the <unk> some sale and you've [laughter] oh my gosh oh my gosh it's the <unk> somebody you want and they wrote that sucks [laughter] seriously [noise] sorry i have to go to the u._s. so air 'cause the the touch screen on my phone was broken anyway i once had to walk home from quite close to where you live george because <unk> there were so much that at the buses stopped running mhm but that's the only time that that has ever happened in my entire time in madison that there was so much snow <unk> stopped running [laughter] it's not so much that they stopped running it they couldn't move anymore [laughter]

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  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. conceptual metaphor
  4. conlang
  5. language
  6. linguistics
  7. metaphor

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 66 Conceptual Metaphors (last edited 2017-09-08 07:56:35 by TranscriBot)