Conlangery #68: Agglutination

Conlangery #68: Agglutination

Published: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 04:10:34 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 oh <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> ultimately [noise] want them to learn the <unk> the languages and the people just random aren't george carlin [noise] with me in new jersey is mike <unk> [noise] i'm actually pennsylvania hello oh he's in pennsylvania now but still on the east coast and then on the other side of me over in sunny california we have the one and only david j. peterson <unk> there you go yeah sure [laughter] uh i was going to do a little fancier but this year in place yeah if that was that the the uh <unk> voice kind of uh shuts down any fend for doesn't it yeah makes you afraid that they were going to hurt you [noise] ah yes that's the that's the way it anytime i say anything in any <unk> that's exactly what you should be thinking i need anything and then once you got it [laughter] so anyway since williams was it was going to be out for a while i was trying to find someone who could uh who could sort of set in his chair and do a decent job of it <unk> <unk> and david immediately came to mind so uh david is of course president of the language <unk> society and creator of turkey for game throne you guys don't know all that because he's been on here twice before anyway so david you had a story you were going to tell <unk> oh yeah i could first i just wanted to say i seen william and as of late this this past weekend i saw him and we're <unk> we're not all right yeah we we're we're both in in chicago for the world science fiction to mention [noise] and um right you were on panels together right oh yeah yeah he uh he uh he <unk> he did a good job you held his own and in fact we <unk> we were on together it was one of the three i was on the one we run together that was easily the most successful at it was the one that i thought that nobody was going to go to what's going to try it it was just introduction to linguistics that what's that [noise] and it was really good so uh if you're if you're listening to this uh uh <unk> was william um you're a good guy and you're taller than i expected have you ever seen in person i <unk> i had i'm sitting in a chair on the picture in uh you know on <unk> but yeah no i've i've i've uh stayed in this house so yeah i know how how big he is and i also know what his voice sounds like in person which is totally different from what it sounds like over a sky marshal guy yeah no no no i do i do exactly the same thing when i got on these things that have to kind of like chronic voice so that you know i <unk> um you know respectable i mean it's just me with my wife i mean yeah pretty much yeah i just you know i don't want thoughts stop stop is my that's kinda the way i talk to you [laughter] oh [laughter] ah it's actually really hard to kind of strange my vocal cords talk like this to do the whole californian thing um i prefer just to yeah speech environment accent like i usually do <unk> it's usually like right now it's uh almost quarter to midnight so this is my my <unk> usually so um this is the little boys just become minor and i don't know i'm totally outside of it so so can we called the <unk> unemployed [laughter] ah sometimes it seems like a <unk> just <unk> possessed monday means but yes okay alright okay so here's this here's a story i was going to tell you this is uh it's kind of a sad story because i don't give you some really really the examples that i watch but um so when when i was when i was going to graduate school by the way uh george now that you there you should take advantage of this um at the student library um you know if you're just an undergraduate you check out books for like a month or whatever um but if you're a graduate student you can check books out for a year yeah and renew them in definitely some if somebody asks for them after the first year then you have to return them you know or you'd ever supposed to um but uh so what happened was um i went to u._c._s._d. is library and i found these two handsome hard hard bound volume's ah one was the um the <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> he she <unk> being meat which is the basic <unk> eskimo dictionary so that was one of them and then the other one was a grammar book i this is cool so i checked it out you know i just kind of looked at him and uh periodically i picked him up and i really really enjoy it and so i checked him out again my second year and then my third year i checked him out again and then i left graduate school and she moved up to orange county i so i i took them with me um and then it came to the point where they would have to be brought new to get into this time i wasn't alert graduate student so then you know i called it a friend of mine who was in the department and i hadn't talked to like i said hey how's it going listen you want to do me a favor and [laughter] and then he check them out and then i took them again and kept to them in orange county uh and then i believe i had um check them out one more time so it's actually i had these books they were just in line for like five or six years [laughter] finally came to be <unk> you know one day he came up to visit and he said so you know what i'm gonna ask right i said no and he said i need to books back i have to return they're they're on me i'm going to be in trouble [laughter] so i was so i was i was crushed because i really just starting to use as my book so i gave him back to him he returned them i went on the amazon yeah i'm just thinking that one day 'cause <unk> there and my wife just getting back to be able to buy them let me guess they're like five hundred bucks there were there at the the hard backs i think we're like five hundred bucks these were actually reasonably priced i thought oh that's awesome and you know what i had a very distinct yellow cover the other one had a very distinct orange covers you know like i don't bowl and then i get them shift and then this is what i get first of all first book that i i was talking about you know the <unk> or whatever [noise] next one though [noise] <unk> <unk> <unk> ah <unk> doodle gee who <unk> i don't know anyway but at the basic <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> sorry he knew he uh wheat eskimo dictionary so it's a dictionary from a slightly different dialect it's not it's not the grammar <unk> so [laughter] it would be basically like if i had just ordered uh you know a dictionary of like 'cause you know cause still in spanish and valencia and spanish they're very very very similar i i don't understand how they possibly got paid to do two different books for the [noise] um so the point is i missing my grammar book and i don't have the wonderful section the hatred translations where they start out with the word for caribou and they start building up words until they're like you know words that are like you know uh force you know for lines long that means something like um uh yeah actually i don't like going to hunt character with my friend because he's decided since a single word um which i think brings us to our topic for this way yes our topic is uh gluten mission so [noise] um this we've kind of we're we're deciding but you know with a little bit it's still ah linguistics topic but it's a little bit lighter 'cause basically what um <unk> nation is is <unk> and uh and the <unk> the <unk> david was just talking about we're a couple of highly ugh lucrative languages [noise] um uh uh gluten mission is sort of building building up words by african nations so i'm a gluten active language will have basically string like <unk> you can build up like a string of aspects is after work before the roof depending on um how the language is is uh working and usually it's sort of one ethics has one either either i either derivation meaning more um inflexible meaning sort of it it it's one category mhm so and a lot of people a lot of people early on <unk> start out with doing him a gluten of language because uh for <unk> it's really really easy to to ah make one this is true yeah oh oh by the way i i do have at least some examples it's not a great example but it just to get us started if you want this is from this is from <unk> <unk> <unk> eat in a movie out of the week alright so if we start off with the route overlook that means just leave we can have our law law that means she left or we can start building on that so we have our <unk> <unk> which means he wants to leave out a lot <unk> walk means she wants to leave again and then oh what am i going to lose [noise] i'll uh two <unk> and that means they say he has left and then we have another one hour <unk> <unk> <unk> means they say he left again alright so it's basically start out with this route and you just keep on adding <unk> keep on extending the meeting a little bit and it can with with uh language like this can just keep going on and on and on forever but that's the longest example like fine so anyway yeah there you go and then the those are those are the the highly aloof <unk> maybe almost into the sort of polly synthetic area [noise] yeah i was <unk> i know <unk> is uh commonly quote the exam given examples or promote provides examples for this was <unk> nation surround them good one i just looked up on there was a <unk> um the one i saw a back when i was studying um w._v._u. um so they show for example the word for house or the house is um my <unk> and then the houses are houses <unk> and then if you say um your houses and <unk> <unk> <unk> ah <unk> was from your houses and <unk> and then it just builds on there where we live the plural the location uh possessive everything has one meaning like door hussein low relatively low meaning to <unk> i'm working ratio yeah that's that's i think uh a key because basically when you have more than one meaning on a single morphine that's where you start going into the uh the the few tunnel rock mhm more flexible uh-huh yeah the uh i kind of wanted to i didn't i didn't bring any examples in but i'm just kind of wanted to i i just kind of brought up a few notes on <unk> things you can do with a blue mission and things things that you have to think about when you're doing and included of language because yeah ever but a lot of people do this like really early on and fairly easy but there's a few things to look out for and there's a few things you can do to make them make <unk> language a little more interesting so [noise] one thing david you know you you talked about this too in in your notes uh uh you have to think about there's there's <unk> there's gotta be some some sort of like fun logical flus where a word begins and ends and there has to be some sort of structure within the the word right otherwise you just have highly ordered uh uh uh uh a um an analytical language with strict word word right and it's basically analytical language where you're pretending that there aren't spaces between the words [laughter] sexually um to to give you a concrete example if you look through um ah a dictionary of uh uh uh you know what are the eskimo languages which by the way i highly recommend uh good dictionary is going to have a very short section that has actual route so you know things you know base roots for like you know caribou and whale fat um everything that would be very useful you [noise] um but um then come to a very long section and incredibly long section that is nothing but <unk> and these topics this have just incredible <unk> so you know like your your mutual aspect she'll stuff like to your church and try to but there's one that means to do the same thing together a a partner or companion in doing something uh to become all <unk> there's another one at me only two much another habitual <unk> oh god it's just it just goes on forever but it's just like there's there's more than a hundred pages just sucks it and what they give you so it's like you know there's always some useful information that you need in order to use any correctly what they give you is like the meeting what the plural and the and the dual is going to look like um what type of words you sweat and then specifically it says um what happens to <unk> when it's added to a word that ends and about that n. k. incident tea or then into cue because those are basically the only sounds that word and and and so what happens is that you kind of get these clue because let's say if you start off with um a word like uh <unk> and i always forget the word for care of it you know that's always the way i look up so let me look it up real quick uh <unk> oh yeah i took two <unk> okay so it took two is gonna end and you're right that means anytime you gotta <unk> after it the <unk> going to look [noise] take on a certain look because it's um a test something entered about if something ends in a cue it always triggers a certain type of phone logical change and and the and the celtics and so pretty much just by hearing the word you can figure out you know like where the <unk> or <unk> what they're what they are kind of are supposed to start with and what the previous word ended wet and it kind of is just a very small clue that lets you know this word is still going this where it has an yeah yeah yeah uh that's i think it's important that gets into another thing that i i mentioned or was thinking about at least was yeah it's it's uh it's good to like okay <unk> not lying example obviously part of what uh gives you clues about the word where the word begins and end is fun logical processes [noise] and i think also not only cannot all help you sort of keep tyne the words together so that they don't end up looking like a bunch of individuals <unk> with no spaces [noise] it also makes it a little bit more interesting uh by sort of not having the aspects is look the same all the time yes amends nuts um one thing i don't want that don't like about <unk> mentioned when i first started when i first started playing like a like a baby <unk> are huge coffee things but they just put together um i didn't like my words us looking like basically beats on a string of mechanically just the same africa's next to each other so um <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> like you mentioned the <unk> i think we just visited a <unk> absurd um mad intense like ah family going on um uh-huh and then there's also you know follows like um <unk> and all sorts of softening and just sort of a <unk> um surface level change that go on the word um to help like what you're saying there at that but um that's a great idea 'cause i [noise] you know for some variety an interesting thing happening um yeah um one of the uh uh one of the hotel tale signs from a couple of other <unk> uh turkish uh its course famous for after uh after a certain point basically after the root uh you don't get rounded valve um unless it's uh a very specific subjects like the um [noise] there isn't any uh yolk i think that's the one um but so it's like if you look at a word you know as these words get larger and larger pretty soon you get to a point where you're at the end of the word and the only valve are like the uh uh she just because that's naturally way the way the phonology pushes it um you get the same thing in a lot of the <unk> language is um like a <unk> and and <unk> uh with one of the whole exception being uh finish of all things saying oh it's most common for us that was one of the ones where it's rare that you actually do get these rounded valve later on in the work oh okay now does not have to do with particularly how so does um <unk> i i'm i may have missed you said some of the <unk> the turkish have vowel harmony yeah oh yeah yeah okay so is that just like a trick of how the bell harmony works like maybe it only works uh on previous sounds amount on sounds afterward than uh well it's um it's a it's a progressive l. army so it starts with a written goes outward [noise] um and the and the languages exclusively succinct um but uh the key is that it's not if a magical ah val harmony systems so [noise] uh in the high valves you get the full gab so you have um uh hi val front background and on route you have those four val uh in a lower version you have um the same set but not all for valves participate in harmony uh specifically you don't get um oh and the front ah rounded val you don't get those to participate in harmony instead you only get uh versus <unk> versus back and so as a result since you can only have in <unk> uh basically uh if the sucks is going to participate in harmony it's going to have i this is hired this low valve feature um because of that it basically weeds out the possibility of there being any routed dallas later on in the work because the second you get a low val it's going to destroy the round because the only high value and get after a <unk> it's either <unk> or <unk> and both of them are on round it so [noise] um so whoever whoever designs of the turkish language was brilliant i think it was on and hot [laughter] [noise] [laughter] no but uh that's that's that's very interesting and i think another thing about um <unk> the internal structure of the word <unk> obviously those fun logical flus are probably going to be like the the uh uh uh um a very important thing to look at when you're trying to define where the word boundaries are but i think another thing is um i think you really need to also think about what order particularly your inflection or <unk> or inflection will aspects is <unk> <unk> a lot of times uh when you have language is i've i've heard of this with a lot of american indian languages have crazy <unk> they have like a verb paradigm that has these slots but you know you've got aspects slots in moods slot and ah the ah agreements locks that you plug things into and that way and that's sort of to explain how the that's sort of uh hey the ah the linguistic analysis trick that that people use to to show that these certain uh inflection laugh <unk> occurred in a particular or so and you you should probably do that for well mountains and verbs and whatever other word classes you have that are going to be lucrative yeah oh oh sorry [laughter] [noise] <unk> yeah from <unk> but um so uh there are two things i want to say about that um first of all yeah you'll see that's true uh for certain aspects of others are added in so called uh logical order which is that uh the the latest one applied is the one that's uh you know governs that so that you can actually have um [noise] you know a passive followed by it costs it at work harder to follow by passive and it would just mean two different things um however it's going to different language by language odd how they will allow those things so certain you know [noise] if it <unk> it can make sense than a language can do it but not necessarily all languages will do it um ah however there are two uh two example i want to bring up [noise] one is um ah one is that there are these three languages called the moderate languages so there's there's one that's like called <unk> when it's called <unk> i i can't actually remember what they are um but you can look them up they're there and um they're interesting because they each have um you know when it comes to a nominal inflection uh they are more <unk> than inflicting meaning that they have a separate <unk> a separate case ethics and then the third one ad in there is a separate possessing celtics uh now what's interesting is that the three language different with respect to the order that he put the exam and they also differ with in that case parrot uh so uh for example i i'm not going to be able to get the languages right so i'm just gonna say you know called mario one will say mardi one will have um say um ah case suffix <unk> for the grammatical cases then for the local cases it'll have uh now and then i'll have a <unk> case ethics <unk> he'll flip the orders around and then for the other language will <unk> be it has kind of a similar thing but completely opposite however it also changes the order depending on how many of those types of <unk> there are so that for example if there's just caissons <unk> it'll be case plural but if there's <unk> possess it it will be case it will be like plural is that's the case uh which is totally crazy uh and then there's another language the third one has like these very inward orders and then for for cases uh very bottom of the paradigm ah the order is actually free there there's no difference between you know ordering like the <unk> 'cause they can go in either order people except either one they're liable produce either one and there's no pragmatic so attached to them um seven it's just a really wild example that can't be accounted for a sin tactically which is kind of the new wave and morphology you follow east coast linguistics they wanna have a cat for everything with syntax nuts [laughter] um the other one i want her to mentioned was back to our old our old eskimo language friends um they have a kind of uh our freer with respect to this ordering of success [noise] because the inflection all i'm sorry the derivation of nature of their stuff is so powerful so it's like you can have this huge all along word and if it's like basically ever or they you can just stick uh uh another <unk> turns it into a now and and suddenly it's in now and then you start adding other <unk> and you can turn that into a bourbon it goes on and on forever um it's just a wonderful language it seems like ah and i'm no expert and i'm not a native speaker so this is probably wrong but i like it to be truth let's pretend that it is [noise] it seems to me that what they do when they're creating sentences is they pick out whatever the topic is that they want to talk about they start with that route and then they just build up the rest of the word so that says what they want you about that word um and do whatever they need to do you know change it into a verb add incorporate now and and and what have you they have the machinery to do it it's really really cool uh by the way it's by plugged for the movie i tend our july where you actually get to hear this language spoken the entire movie senate ah in english it's called the fast runner canadian movies just wonderful wonderful i recommend it mm <unk> [noise] that's a good question man you know what you guys you guys assess things must yourself i am going to net flicks i am net flicks thing no <unk> [laughter] [noise] uh don't go for for too long but um i think that's uh [noise] some good points on there um i will i will tell you on the the point that it doesn't necessarily have to be a strict sort of paradigm and order you might you might you might want to play around with a freer orders or um sort of alternate meanings for different ordering of of <unk> but i think still should have you should think about it in in uh to to some extent you shouldn't just like so i don't know i'm just gonna make a list of aspects <unk> that's what they mean you should have <unk> give some fought to uh whether they occur in a certain order or or not you know yeah yeah i am the <unk> the the other thing that i wanted to bring up and mrs [noise] this is most people if they're i think a lotta people listening here we'll think of this is kind of obvious but um [noise] i want to bring up this this is this is uh i live will listen my notes as a new blank morning it's uh so i'm a gluten of language does not have to have <unk> i mean well let me rephrase this way if you're making a looting of language don't fall into a crap of necessarily every athletics is a single syllable yeah because that that we'll just get boring you can have <unk> that are just one segment just a team and wouldn't have language can also have [noise] probably usually <unk> maybe three syllable africa <unk> as well it doesn't have to be like no you don't have to have <unk> that that that that that yeah i was uh when we were talking about uh <unk> uh i mean you need to do um <unk> and language i'm not going to <unk> but um i found them or <unk> they have to syllable it's like maybe three syllable um [noise] <unk> ah <unk> <unk> i can't hear very well is tucson <unk> <unk> <unk> ah <unk> yeah um as soon as my simple to syllable uh sciences so er here i've got uh oh i've got some for you [laughter] i've yeah i've got two ah <unk> this year um this one is just a pretty simple meaning it means to have just finished um so we have a select what that means he works and then to have just finished working as he has just finished working <unk> son of a cat okay some of 'em <unk> ah <unk> to work there you go so there [laughter] so the <unk> there is m. m. a. n. i. q. u. a. m. i. q. is there you <unk> uh <unk> yeah yeah absolutely [noise] other things you gotta give you the stuff's everywhere [laughter] pretty pretty much in every word here's another one so this is uh uh subjects to mean that means to be glad or relieved that someone has finally done something okay [laughter] [noise] so we have uh to keep the war that that means he a riot and then we have <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> i'm glad that he finally a riot [laughter] yeah make this stuff up man this it's just it's just so awesome what do they suck says they're wonderful [noise] oh oh my god oh hold on a big on his act i don't know if it was good to beans or things involved in a relationship defined by the word base to which this suffix added [laughter] wow i don't even know what i mean so we have a new car new car that's younger sibling and new car honey that's brother and sister one older than the other one uh-huh mhm how <unk> how about this uh knew a <unk> that's calf new <unk> new <unk> new uh uh uh i knew i knew <unk> <unk> that's a cash on the couch together [laughter] just arrived from the word for cat it's incredible right ah so um i got some kind of a nice but the <unk> the other i know a <unk> a lot of suffering from two right are all <unk> other um [noise] they are mostly model slavic well yeah i think i'm out of the the great list of <unk> [noise] all right [laughter] [noise] oh there's there there there are many of them um yeah i think they're <unk> mostly moslem but again that's a <unk> on line and a a a an <unk> i think my main point about bringing up that having <unk> suffix or even single segment <unk> which that depends on your social structure whether you want to put those in or not um my point was that having everything be one syllable one syllable in seoul boys a little bit on natural and it's also a little bit boring <unk> uh you know your your point is well taken <unk> true now do you want to hear about these <unk> that are not <unk> which ones 'cause they're they're pretty hilarious therapy hilarious okay one is easy yard and that's and then another one you'll and and they're both for numbers so like you could out like i i don't even know what you would have <unk> what are some <unk> okay well news right the word for one has brought to light uh-huh yeah yeah so i think it should be uh <unk> with the um [noise] one million and loony leone would be one billion i'm pretty sure i mean like actually click on these things and see what they mean that that would seem like a lot of work [noise] yeah yeah oh no it would be i'm sorry <unk> no one really on and i was right i was right by the way <unk> billion <unk> noise one billion and <unk> is one thousand <unk> i'm sorry [laughter] i was wrong that's actually the suffix for one thousand billion where no one that i've really only know one thousand million with thousand million yes oh one thousand million is a billion thank you know but no it can't be [noise] okay well <unk> <unk> hands actually a little bit on on ah where you're from but uh <unk> you you you tell me what that means [laughter] 'cause i can't figure it out it's too <unk> for me [laughter] [noise] [noise] oh wow um huh thousand thousand billion okay thousand billion which i'm not sure i'm not sure what the who who wrote this and why why they wrote that went to okay ten to fifteen that's one was fifteen zero's that would be a thousand million billion trillion oh thirty years in the uh the the the weird scale goes nine and ten million billion fifteen as far as real young but anyway these are the b. e. r. r. o. <unk> it's like a weird way of doing the giant numbers but i can't really make much sense up yeah yeah it's uh i i honestly i don't know how people take themselves too seriously i mean [laughter] just playing around with numbers is ridiculous [laughter] i mean at our age i just don't understand it [noise] the math guys just make us money that's all right that's all that's all we're interested in um the other one is just a it's obviously it's borrow from greek it's like say you had <unk> that's the word i don't think it is but if it were you'd have to your logo an overload has become a suffix and ask for onto seventy those are those are the three non <unk> spur ontario so there's your fun but um okay so what was i going to say next oh yeah so i wanted to say that's about as broad show um i took a class in <unk> when i was at berkeley it was a student run class and it was taught by ah two girls one was from russia and the other was from korea south korea and um they grew up speaking as bronco and their native language uh bilingual and then they both came to united states and learn english uh and they were friends um so the <unk> they actually prefer to speak <unk> is that was basically what they grew up with [noise] um so the thing with um uh created language if you actually start to get people that want to learn it uh they they always feel like they want to change all that they want you know they want to fix it up like oh well you could do this and i was like oh you can't you know so for for them you know as native speakers obviously it's like no this is the way speaking so if you actually look at the <unk> you can actually start building up some really law on word um and just even make these like kind of single sentence words like you can get and an eskimo type languages um but the thing is uh as you do that as as you start to to you know to really build these things up uh native speakers reject up um they just started to say like no you can't say that it's like yeah that's what that means but you can't say that um and so it just gets to a point where basically you know it gets ridiculous and it's just not comment you know you might if somebody was trying to be clever and say they were you know especially in writing their writing something literary yeah sure they might build up a big long word like this um and the native best broader speaker right look at it and you know get it and like oh well it's really neat but it's just not something that's done in casual everyday speech uh same thing with word orders i discovered it it just really <unk> every time i didn't do <unk> order they preferred that [laughter] um even though you know there's nothing that's brought or that says that you have to do it that way [noise] um so i i get the sense the same as kind of true of these uh gluten any language just the natural language is like swahili um there's a certain point where word start getting so big that is just simply not common in maybe grammatical you may be able to do it but it's just not done you know it's hard to really and it's hard to really put like about you and say at this point you know before this line you know the word is okay after this line where it's ridiculous yeah i can't really do that but it's just kind of a sense you get um is is the impression that i've gotten from these inquisitive languages i'm i'm wonder if like uh building up way so many derivation all units um <unk> particularly derivation ill ah morphine on <unk> on <unk> on a word if it might start to cause sort of uh i uh hey ah heavy cognitive load and people might start having trouble processing it but uh [noise] but like you might <unk> you you have in your nose was um david that uh yeah even in english we have actually this was starbucks return as <unk> which yeah <unk> <unk> from longest <unk> common word of english but nobody ever use it and <unk> have their their own sort of sub their own sort of uh sort of uh <unk> processors for forming chemical names but right the you only see those long chemical names in chemistry chemical papers i doubt though even used them uh when murdered like at conferences talking to each other they'll probably use some sort of abbreviation [noise] right right uh but uh [noise] so <unk> probably uh a lot of any language was skin a hat that's has a fairly fairly were bus generational system's probably going to have some ability to make fairly long words but yeah you kinda have to decide i think since there's <unk> there's no real hard limit you probably will have to decide for yourself sort of how long are you willing to let words go on before you decide yeah this is not going to be like a common thing that i'm going to use and oh my oh the ah on my uh <unk> and stuff [noise] <unk> yeah and i think that it's something that you can kinda get the sense that if you know your developing their language like this if you start to do some translation uh and you just start to see i mean <unk> invariably if you if you come up with the grammatical system to come up with a language system and you start to do some translation of you know at least apparently like tax doesn't need to be complicated needs to have a lot of stuff in it [noise] you'll start to you'll start to pick up a fence for at least how you use the language right and what's just what's more common and what what's kind of you know just an outline grammatical phenomenon [noise] um and so you know you'll you'll you'll probably get a sense of what's <unk> what's acceptable you long what's comment and then what's just strange or you know just for special circumstances yeah it's sort of like um [noise] <unk> yeah once translation is good for something out a lot of different problems but yeah that's that is one one thing i think i it it it takes some translation to figure out how things work and one thing that i've uh sort of really fence coming on to the <unk> i've really realize is important is it's it's all well and good to develop these abstract systems and and all your your your little uh inflection apparent arms and stuff but you need to at least our translating a few examples and probably work on do one or two taxes well uh in order to figure out how those things are actually use because [noise] <unk> like <unk> there's if you have <unk> this is getting a little bit off topic but if you have you know and and uh blanketed rude but you can't really figure out where to use it and what what how it changes the meanings too it man what's the point of having it in the first one yeah uh the same with these really really long words if if you had if you can make a word that's a mile long but you can't think of a reason that you would ever actually feel like using it then why <unk> why not cut back down to size but yeah so yeah [laughter] yeah so we're talking about um i think all <unk> from polly slavic so uh <unk> oh right yeah and um so yeah the only one side if you don't have to <unk> but on the other side of the huge stick with if you go with suckers that are like obsolete she'll get <unk> words that are too long and it'll be like and speech where you have to twelve years in san <unk> in this world thing mm oh yeah yeah yeah you don't have to you don't have to also don't make all your all your aspects of the same length is the main point but you don't have to if you make everything like even make everything <unk> make words too long so i really make just make it a mix ah probably more shorter ones uh and fewer longer ones but make it a mix of um <unk> just a little bit um in your in your experiences with <unk> with uh with languages do they typically put <unk> on the same place like or at least the ones that are certain same purpose from the same place or do they just i mean i'm just not what how to say like i don't know plural prefix and the pastry fixed bought a gender suffix and m._s._g. subjects and maybe an infant's thrown in there i don't i don't know i haven't seen like that but i don't think it's a <unk> of ah you know possibility uh swahili is one i think that comes to mind that has kind of a nice mix <unk> and <unk> um if you start to look at languages from you know uh you're raleigh they're almost exclusively sucks thing yeah <unk> yeah and and the same is true of um of the two two languages uh there are pretty much exclusively <unk> well uh [noise] that uh and who knows why that is but it it we just it just seems to be true generally that uh <unk> are more common yeah then pretty thick since uh especially uh you know inflection um i have no idea why <unk> that should be uh i it's probably has to do it probably has to do with linear precedent and the idea that it being that it's it's difficult to process speech if you don't know the most important part of the word quickly that's my guess yeah well we could we could get on a whole discussion on the the theoretical possibilities but we'd kind where we we been in the past we've tried to kind of steer away from theoretical discussion but so let's not go too much speculation on that but yeah just do keep in mind that suffer exes are more common and i would say probably your language <unk> uh uh a language is going to the least sort of lean in one direction yeah that's what i usually do i'm i'm a i have i experiments little bit with like maybe one <unk> one or two previous is but mostly substances mhm uh i think you're usually of course if you're um if you're doing this historically if you're doing it from an evolutionary <unk> pretty much solve itself uh because <unk> it won't be you know like well of course they go here because that's where that's where their position was uh in the sentence uh when it was separate word that's usually sinks uh come up unless you know you're looking at a special circumstance like er latin for example where all the prefix as their previous is because they were <unk> yeah um and so it just made sense that they went on to the front of the verb now why this uh you know language had <unk> suppose posted it as soon as that some parents always interested me but yeah i guess that goes [noise] as far back x._p. i eat us oh because it's such a v. yeah <unk> it's got kind of a mix of uh had final i had an initial features i i think it probably is mostly as probably mostly had initially i think about it um we're all kind of had initial n. n. p. a. e. ah even if we have had final tendencies ah we're never as if as strongly had file or something like turkish or a japanese uh the wife's always so typical for us to learn a language and <unk> well and turkish especially because they don't have cartoons that are interesting japan's cartoon <unk> [laughter] you need some motivation in order to learn a language yeah absolutely i think we can probably wrap up the discussion a little bit do you either have you guys have any final thoughts on subject <unk> uh <unk> mentioned before move on to feedback i had just one quick one um back where you're talking about raised uh kinda given heads up to your speakers about where were burnt boundaries are um you could also maybe i don't know i'm having a certain kind of we're always be at the end of the word for example like uh similar japanese has the particles outlawing on cetera um that would be nice boundary or your phone uh tactics so if you can't have anything but say hey uh for going to end your word you know you can make that <unk> one usually <unk> at the end of the word then you know you that will make time they get a shakedown on some or if you have every word being <unk> and you see uh <unk> that might be how you how you kinda put that in there and give it would make a little bit easier um yeah <unk> well let me tell you the turkish is brilliant in this regard um it's uh it's exclusively suck seeing so the content part of the word is always gonna be first hand it's also got word final stress pretty much uniformly so it's like you know you get the contact part at the beginning uh you know where your folks in the most attention and then you have the stress at the very end telling you this is the end of the word i swear it's like it it it basically is a con link turkish is just wonderful [laughter] i'm <unk> i'm <unk> uh turkish for a while so uh let me tell you i signed up to take turkish and my ah junior year at college and there was basically there were two people that are interested in taking this class me and one other person and so i emailed professor and say hey look i really want to take this class but starting at night in the morning and that's just not something i'm going to do is there any way we can move this as you have like a like a i don't know uh we cook maybe if ah if you come to the first day of class and then we can discuss movie i'm like no i'm not waking up that early and that's the story of why i didn't take turkish similar to the reason i didn't take uh japanese same reasons and pick a second semester russian [laughter] yeah it was it like uh eight thirty in the morning so i took chinese instead 'cause it was in the afternoon but now i'm taking i'm taking language class in the morning i'm taking uh <unk> uh like nine so uh you are not taking tech golly are you serious yeah that's that the class is actually titled filipino but [noise] which i find really hilarious so filipino is is like the official name for the the the standard of <unk> but <unk> does not negatively include half yeah well it's actually it's it's actually filipino p. right but no but they spell it for <unk> filipino with an f. um but it's a loan word uh uh uh [laughter] uh so it's like most of your own speakers can't pronounce the name of language [noise] but anyway [laughter] i i um i'm not going to be able to get over that i can't believe that you're taking the garlic jerk hell who's teaching to garlic in wisconsin [laughter] [laughter] i didn't even offer that at berkeley they offered everything or if they didn't offer that they offer a lot of things i was going to take his lulu but it conflicted with my phonology course mm uh yeah but uh anyway i think we can move on to feedback we ceased talking about <unk> [laughter] um so we have an email from michael er not armed michael but another my [noise] [laughter] [noise] uh he says hey guys i've been having a pair of a time getting going with the tax for some reason i can't get my hands on the windows by marriage that the <unk> project website links to [noise] and i can't stand lick <unk> book uh recommends using an on line and it er er scribble attack dot com but the site isn't taking new users anymore besides that it it's a free me in business model but you only five projects unless you pony up the dough [noise] when i tried to register it pointed me at <unk> dot com which i'm going to try out from what i can tell so far it's easy to write out the code and you just click on <unk> <unk> if you put that p._b._s. right away i'll keep you guys posted this might be a great source for resource <unk> so um we talk we've <unk> we've talked about using a <unk> for writing <unk> before william is really big into the tech 'cause he is he's he's used it for work and then sort of transferred into his his used for coming in i've gotten i kind of got into writing <unk> um using using i use licks which he mentioned that you can't stand but uh so i didn't look at the these sites [noise] but um i guess it could be useful for for people who are looking at it you mentioned writing the codes see my thing is i hate having i i don't want to have to write the actual attack code i want to have a program do that for me but uh anyway you guys are crazy i wouldn't touch that thing that attempt for fall [laughter] my goodness i i can't imagine i i i did at one point in time i tried to mess around with <unk> a little bit uh because uh <unk> the creator scare he's gotten into using it and seems to do it pretty well he does it for uh he doesn't for his assignments um yes it's like uh the linguistics assignments secrets and i think you also dozens papers at it now and you know more power to 'em but no i'm just going to use a word processor on mac i use pages because i like it and so i just [noise] <unk> it gets to a point where you had to ask yourself uh what is it getting me um as opposed to what's it costing me and it's like if you put in all this effort into the learning the system it's like you're spending more time on your <unk> then you are on your car and lightning and then it's like uh to me that's just not funny at all [noise] um so i don't know that's why i i i ah <unk> 'cause it's it's um it it basically does a lot of the the uh <unk> <unk> it does all the <unk> code stuff behind the scenes and yes it did take a little bit of pain to get it up and running and stole libraries and stole <unk> the the plug in i needed to to make losses but once i got her up and running it wasn't really that hard to to uh do you know get on with the writing of the grammar so [noise] i guess you know it's to each their own [laughter] right yeah uh i i i would like to i'd like to <unk> that i just think that ah there seems to be i i hadn't seen lately a lot of beautifully format it caused like grammar and of those i can say my it's the format and just gorgeous um and then that's i think that word and so [noise] [laughter] how are you trying to say something without saying it [noise] you you can you can you can see what grassy <unk> figure that out [noise] but er but they they do just they sure do to slip just great um oh i'm sure they would flip wonderful and print it out [noise] anyway [noise] so my <unk> any opinions um attacks or just in general i don't know well i'm attack um i mean i've been looking for a <unk> i'm looking to get away from my my final download books for a while um yes i do you spend on the books um [laughter] and actual note cards and i'm off [laughter] yes but uh i would like to trying to harm upon line i would love i was looking at <unk> i still have to work on learning it um so <unk> attempt to put on line things on <unk> uh doing uh like a lot of drone for some kind of blog which was okay but not everything i hoped for and uh using were docklands okay but once again it's kind of <unk> i don't know i guess <unk> <unk> as wonderful if computers arm's still hoping for more but um yeah <unk> you know <unk> looking at penn i can do my work and don't need you know so <unk> <unk> which i i i would like to give it a shot up so logan curse lay it that's how you pronounce his last name that might be seriously it he just uh you just ah set a <unk> uh a message to the con lane listed a saying that he's got and ah he's worked out kind of a research thing for a semester where he is going to be working on some sort of conway dictionary program no yeah we'll see what comes of it yeah it'll probably be just uh i <unk> it's like uh since he's getting actual academic funding it may be targeted to field linguists ah ostensibly but obviously the <unk> you know have a little bit of our stuff in it but [noise] just yes i hope that that turns into a good a dictionary program i read that update too and i'm very excited especially since she's going to open source it as well so you know once he's kinda iffy uh sort of falls by the wayside on updating it and getting it uh work somebody else can pick it up but yeah i i hope to see that come into something i could use [laughter] yeah we all we all went so we're wishing it the best logan you're listening yeah so that's um about it for the show and we even got to sort of special much since then i was thinking of before the show what was <unk> thank you <unk> and uh um david do you <unk> you have <unk> you have actually um a new project the <unk> uh well a new wish project you working on your stolen game with friends but you're doing this defiance thing on science fine oh yeah good old uh yeah so uh there's going to be a new show coming to <unk> uh it's uh it's going to be a television show and <unk> also going to be a massively multi player on line r._p._g. kind of uh shooter mhm and they're <unk> they take place in the same universe with the uh with the show kind of set ever say i'm sorry what the show centered around st louis and the game centered around the bay area uh and the idea is that um ah actions in the game will affect the shit oh and uh and things in the show will affect the game and vice versa [noise] ah so it's a it's a really neat and have vicious idea um and uh i certainly uh but you also for the show it's it's a it's kind of like a just a very short version is that uh aliens for whatever reason have <unk> and our stranded here and now have to humans and these airlines have to live together just to kind of get by um the details will be filled in when the show <unk> but uh anyway what i'm doing is that i created a language is four uh four different uh aliens species and writing oh wow four or five different languages okay so technically it's twofold languages and then she kind of language palace but they don't actually get a lot of dialect translated into them since mainly just words and phrases here and there for the other two um but yet her too yeah the two different systems and then there's three different writing systems are so one of the two uh one of the <unk> just as a full writing system with it um and so there's a ton of dialogue throughout the show and then also writing um instead of like you see signs and stuff in town that are written and various script ah so that's what i'm doing now that's great uh i <unk> it makes me excited that it's not one <unk> alien culture yeah let's come it splits several different ones um uh but one thing i want to ask you you you're lifted everywhere as language and culture consultant so you have some input um sort of non language bits of the culture then quite a bit actually quite a bit so it's kind of like i i <unk> i uh i get the stretch for for each um episode and that i like read it and i say okay this is what makes sense and what doesn't make sense for the various types of aliens like in the show uh i've gotten to develop a a bunch of cool stuff like i developed a [noise] different types of religious systems for uh the various aliens uh i've been able to kind of like uh generates um yeah like songs and chats here and there uh and that i i also just had a i basically just kind of get to get input whenever anything that's like the least bit cultural comes up um it's just it's it's really really wow that's great well then uh yeah i just wanted to bring that up because i thought that was ah ah cool that you've got some some more stuff going on [noise] but uh anyway onto actually wrapping up the show uh we'll start with mike since uh since i was just having plug stuff uh mike do you have any final words of wisdom well um i've actually looked keeping my eyes open to speak for we're the wisdom in uh in my plan or there's a nice little <unk> not really specifically for language but it's uh it's uh it is not because things are difficult that we do not they're they're just because we do have their their difficult and <unk> <unk> and uh <unk> the taxes to this sort of calm i mean you know it's not too difficult things difficult so don't try to do it you know childhood and will be so hard so go horse and [laughter] all the good stuff on my nerves [laughter] [noise] yeah that's nice uh david you have anything [noise] don't use more fan at all [noise] at home [noise] normal it's bad for you [noise] zero tolerance policy on morphine absolutely zero tolerance [noise] bad for you [noise] it's [noise] it's <unk> [noise] what is what is that why it's kind of like um [noise] it's kind of like eating um eating a steak with chopsticks that are on fire [noise] but [noise] um [noise] go the answer is no don't trying to think about a hundred [laughter] leave it alone leave it alone [noise] half the time [noise] i'm gonna say happy combine thank you for listening to con lingering you can find our our car insurance icon winery dot com you can send questions comments more topic or featured language suggested to con lying or you had to female dot com to submit a con langhorn outlying breeding for the top of the show see our contribute paid for details [noise] <unk> provided by these mongers creation society and our seen music is by no device [noise] where where did you eat there quite where wait let me guess you are eating ice cream cone they usually i just just the just the cones not ice cream yeah mostly finish the ice cream or oh there was ice cream a man out really jealous [laughter] [noise] twin between finding out the ah ah you were on your way home and [noise] and so are you show i walk down to the student union and got some i <unk> i got this um [noise] it's called blue moon it tastes like ah sugary cereal well if i miss the gum to sell your nobody can guess my age uh usually think i'm about ten years younger than i am part of it if you look about fourteen [laughter] yeah yeah uh part of it as my natural uh <unk> um <unk> pretty sure that's the word and um [noise] i i think the rest of it it's it's it's my james <unk> everybody in my family is very young or at least everybody on the mexican side of my family all the people on the white side of the family from what i hear a look golden drunk you should understand that the quality of your voice suggests that you do have facial hair [laughter] really very strongly very strongly it's called google stock sexually especially now that my own i guess story but i've 'cause i've heard that as well that like ah mhm <unk> just the story that a woman didn't know she was pregnant but then based on the uh you know adds she received um yeah basically the ads figured it out first and then she was like oh maybe that's why i'm throwing up and stuff [noise] i guess they could they could uh detect when you um things like oh she's not buying tampons anymore [laughter] mm mm no i'm by the way i'm i'm i think that uh i think i'm really glad that that <unk> been here for this discussion they swam i like fish i am a fire hydrant we [noise] whoa jack loy gap <unk> <unk> <unk> yeah that's what your voice in your head so i do i have like a noticeable west virginian accent because i never hear myself uh you have a note of simple voice quality yeah no it's very beer dish uh it's got a a phony quality to it i won't be but let me let me ask real quick just one sec my grandmother's apparently dropping some juice off you think i'm going to have time like she she says down the street but she's going to come and she's going to have a <unk> not going to pick it up that right oh sure [noise] school i mean you hear him <unk> okay okay uh-huh dog know whose grandmother is dropping off some juice a curious i <unk> my ear wax was bothering me so i cook a huge <unk> yeah it was it it seems that the apple juice and it's been a west virginia style jog um okay yeah it's kinda jug that you'd expect to see like you know three axis written on the front of it uh yeah <unk> somebody who would who would actually play a job would yeah yeah oh it's going to become an instrument soon as the juices all out of there yeah there's a good joke it's it's it's not flexible so um if you have that none of america is that a verb it is now i just i was just thinking about the spanish version of that next next <unk> uh well actually knew a lot of them are six at all [laughter] yeah yeah i <unk> yeah even do that the word <unk> i i guess you want to go calculate larry uh the word for <unk> education is <unk> i was born in lactose intolerant this is true but i now take two pills every single morning and i just as good as anybody else so i [laughter] i i drowned in ice cream my <unk> is full of eagles <unk> how how long is that one um well this will do for the ten twelve fourteen fifteen words in each word is sort of them <unk> letters uh almost all of them so we used to <unk> <unk> yeah lawn in <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> [noise] 'cause that was pretty good [laughter] i can read it so long as i can see it but [laughter] um i you know i can create myself my never ever crap it's full of meals and death rocky i got it where the <unk> the nita overly slowly

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  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. agglutination
  4. conlang
  5. language
  6. linguistics

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 68 Agglutination (last edited 2017-09-08 09:41:00 by TranscriBot)