Conlangery #75: Alashian

Conlangery #75: Alashian

Published: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 06:14:53 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 and <unk> and opportunity that maybe i mean when she gets nothing much [noise] more computer <unk> part gas muggy destructive languages people <unk> early ah with me up in maine we have mike lynne hello and uh over in <unk> and down and you're <unk> chicago right yeah we have martin <unk> bust you miss and we have [noise] martin on for a very specific reason uh and that is well a couple of reasons first we don't have uh david <unk> peterson right now but uh we brought martin on is the gas because we're going to talk about one of his language is uh uh last year in which you just recently got into sort of uh uh completed forum i guess um yeah i'd say something like that i'd been publishing hard can it online that they'd been ready but i don't really tried promoting it until i illinois entire thing is more or less say yeah i can understand that um can you just sort of talk to us a little bit about um how you got into <unk> and uh in general and then also explain a little bit of the idea idea behind a you're calling that were featuring which is <unk> oh yeah sure i actually been interested in language for pretty much [noise] long as i can remember even back in elementary school whatever reason i would [noise] hobbies what was it collecting alphabet [noise] i had i had to find her four oh store brand outlets i collected when i was really young [noise] um <unk> uh <unk> from my online community is more i guess <unk> middle east or i got a lot more interested in the actual linguistics side but [noise] uh i did a lot of the same sort of stuff uh many other do when i got started creating uh creating languages century on a whim whatever skiing and interesting at the time i was never really see i was <unk> a century tried to do it more real holistic type world are low but at the end of when you're dealing with right <unk> human on the other world there's only so realistic i actually but um then when they get really in high school i got much more interested in natural but stick ah real world like we're actually tied in to the actual history of human history on her and the idea of the century <unk> maybe we can some little that mystery trying not to change too much but just some way to introduce new and language in an actual historical environment that had derived from the store <unk> language and that was influenced by other rio languages and it's an argument and things like that um <unk> washing and to be checking um denser project that i'd done this thing first <unk> which are the <unk> yeah um we featured uh <unk> uh a while back in uh uh when i'm uh looking at your sight it's looks like you had your i'd <unk> was was the first one that was that was really sort of complete and um we did that one um and then there's uh last year and now it looks like you also have a few other projects too that are sort of ongoing yeah um <unk> bother washington is uh semitic language and there's one other than that i'd been working on but it's still very <unk> called <unk> which in a century intended to be a dentist and mike mhm um you know same uh tell me what what's what's <unk> <unk> most famous <unk> oh okay yeah very minor language language family now in central siberia that recently became somewhat famous or the proposal buddy i may have a genetic relationship with the uh not in a language in north america [noise] yeah okay um no i understand but uh lashing is semitic and uh <unk> like so [noise] it just to to make things clear for listeners i <unk> i know you already explained this but uh you're languages are generally uh set in the real world so <unk> <unk> <unk> it's they're they're like alternate history language is the the <unk> um <unk> was in the republic of <unk> which at one time was a real place but you sort of <unk> what would happen if that place that um if the republican no regrets still existed today with the language would look like yeah um in the case of <unk> that's actually a reference to the term uh last year was found in a number of ancient <unk> um from the middle east i think like there was some <unk> some babylonian <unk> referred to this place just known as <unk> mm and it's now understood that <unk> been some somewhere i'm cypress either i went to <unk> somewhere on the island and i basically just decided to take that and run with it and positive <unk> committed people that actually were behind me oh so the the like so and so ah she put uh last year and a semitic language on cyprus and tons of them like you did with no <unk> pause it them still adjusting to the present day or two i'm sorry [laughter] okay um [noise] uh i <unk> well um one thing i'm gonna ask you <unk> do you do you drive it all the way from <unk> medical or did you um pulitzer <unk> from <unk> is it descended from like some some form of arabic or what in northwest medic which would make it i guess essentially language language like art and he <unk> no it wasn't drive all the way um credit committed but from i guess <unk> <unk> <unk> probably should uh spend more time actually reading the background or the language myself instead of asking [laughter] or something like that but it's it's important for us to um [noise] uh one thing i really love about your your grammar is is because you're setting these uh in the real world and you write them very much like this is a real language um talking about you you develop the whole history of this place and have all this stuff and there's things that are there are like uncertainty <unk> and the grammar there things up um this <unk> this is the most common this is this is a little bit less common kind of uh stuff that kind of language that you use in your grammar to make it just gives it that much more versed mood i mean that's the sort of thing i'm after i try to make it look century laugh the real world <unk> um [noise] i don't know like you said you had a bunch of uh a few things that you had been looking at in the grammar before the show <unk> would you do you want to um bring some of those up maybe asked martin about 'em or <unk> yeah um actually i guess i i kind of uh uh i was looking through the grammar and it's just it's fantastic i really really i <unk> great um [noise] <unk> you know i i <unk> a lot of experience with semitic languages leaving just mechanics of it um i it looks very you know very naturalistic um you know i was reading through starting with the forward and <unk> and reading into the background writing and <unk> and writing it wait is that i think that's a lot of <unk> there's a lot of rich just there a lot of people um well that i haven't seen in a lot of ah kind of mindless maybe some more about uh meat-eating three more calm life but it's just it's very nice [noise] to get that extra um flavor in there and not just the have taken for granted yeah and on the on on the writing there's a native script right and then there's the greek [noise] um <unk> like the greek script which is what they are meant to be using now and then there's a <unk> of course um [noise] it's uh i find that um very interesting i can't really sort of comment so much on the way that you particularly used the greeks script it's unfortunate that we don't have william on this episode to to ah talk about that but uh it it it is um a very interesting in many ways so um yeah with the greeks for that sort of <unk> wanted to try to adapt it in a way that had a lot of <unk> as well because in my experience with like when i see my language and then like indigenous language is russia for instance where the russian and and and developed scripts language that oftentimes they had bought very strange small <unk> weird quirk results and come back yeah scriptural developed by rushing out by um native speakers in these languages question so in that in the same way i kind of wanted <unk> to have some <unk> entirely and not entirely have a one to one quarter bombings the actual <unk> yeah [noise] plus you know and you have um historical changes going on in the language sometimes the script will fit better with an older version of language than with the current version yeah um [noise] one thing i notice a very <unk> uh i found interesting was so you have all these different verb classes or verbs scales we called them that i i guess they're different conjugation is right um yeah it's uh very much <unk> insure where they're just different oh constantly patterns they can take a single route and and take a single route martin how'd you get it many different patterns get it's like yeah <unk> no it's just um you dropped out a script for a second um so but the thing that actually caught my eye what'd you have the section on european loan verbs and basically you basically have a <unk> somewhat defective um verb conjugation specifically for <unk> from european languages not not just the in the european but do you have a lot of uh turkish were learn words too yeah i actually really wanted to play around with language [noise] mhm so in i sort of tried to create a miniature <unk> i'm <unk> i'm cypress between <unk> <unk> mhm and i was also large inspired by some of the things that happening more cheese <unk> which is similar in that that where the originally <unk> that are under one heavy heavy <unk> from <unk> from english mhm and yeah i wanted to do something similar to that except take it back and i did and extra an extra thousand years back in history [noise] yeah i just i just find it uh interesting because <unk> often have a lot of issues when they get borrowed just because you tend to bark a lot of different things on for so it's interesting that you took the time to think of and you are even went to the point of you know oh well actually in used to borrow verbs and then uh by uh ignoring the vows <unk> to get into one of their semitic temp place but now but as as things progressed and <unk> there were more bilingual that wasn't ah feasible any more so this this new sort of um special loan word conjugation for for verbs developed i liked that ah that particular detail of it on now mike were there any specific things that jumped out at you and this one yeah i was actually um i'm gonna keep going but you'd jumped inside they're going to let you go you're okay but um yeah i was actually gonna try to direct um you know <unk> you know um looking at how you got to meet you talk about you uh like to play with allows contact and how they have all like that um so do you start from like clear kind of split from one stage of the uh i guess the pro the language that where the history as it is different from the ultimate through that you're that you're coming from or how do you like uh kind of work with that that's really great i'd love to hear about that <unk> in terms of <unk> where the <unk> uh sort of contacting once actually starts come into play er yeah i mean like i said i i don't have too much um back on and <unk> the semitic languages so i'm not sure if the if the complications are like different i'm not even serves necessarily mutually intel's will if someone who speaks <unk> uh uh not lying or if the contributions are similar a mechanic or if they're similar in <unk> there's some or both or neither um i was curious about that not having any you know not knowing the <unk> i do to kinda see how you will that actual history with your own um flavor in creation mhm well i didn't go into some some of the history or uh uh uh development of power in syntax and the history section of the grammar mhm where um <unk> most of <unk> earlier history and very much in line with the other um northwest languages but it it's entry goes off on its own packed when at one point i don't remember where where something like around seven hundred b._c. or so when <unk> ancestors at these degrees moved cyprus [noise] and and they're constantly in contact with drinks and that that's where i guess <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> quite a lot of the <unk> morphology they'll still there it's very much recognize the boys submitted mhm but you get a lot a lot more work where <unk> going starts to come into play at [noise] um big rican when's might encourage certain um certain worms to be in boston in favor of something that's more typically reach for more than than um <unk> one minute languages are known for things like um a burst number <unk> where it seems like uh when you want if i ask you what now use a feminine humor and um then now and take them back in the new merle where [noise] the system was essentially trashed and the washington because everybody from agree perspective that makes absolute sense ah <unk> the domino system actually win very much <unk> <unk> along the lines of slippery agree mhm where um <unk> what one of my personal favorite development ah a lot of the um submitted object direct object topics or century reanalyze <unk> er unbalanced quitting [noise] that could then move either before or after the bird recording to very similar rule with <unk> and <unk> from it the medic perspective it very much and mhm mhm [noise] i do see um i'm not i'm not very uh familiar with uh someone that can languages either but i know some a few things about them and i notice a few features that obviously you kept from from the <unk> you know the most obvious is you have continental root system but ah we just talked about how that um that is not all going all the way because of the the number of loon words but um you have inflicting propositions you have um both um second and third person pronouns are marked for masculine feminine uh thing you have uh i haven't really uh found so you do have gender you have masculine feminine gender which is another <unk> medic thing [noise] um so um could you talk about so [noise] but um [noise] i don't know i don't have particular things [noise] but uh yeah <unk> just thinking about um are there a particular things that you would like point out to us as um sort of interesting things you've talked to a whole lot about these um the these these contact the fixes or like something specific that you might want to sort of drill down is a really good example of and sort of go on on <unk> in a little bit more deaths i contacted by yeah or or any sort of interesting features language but [noise] um well i mean we already touched on one thing that sort of the <unk> <unk> for european filipino european or turkish for one of the most notable insurance um another thing with the <unk> yeah a lot of the actual <unk> got up here in the language are much more closely in my <unk> oh okay um for instance [noise] hi this is true in a number of other medic languages as well but the original <unk> system where than boston favor potential they system um there there are a new uh perfect series of a perfect in a <unk> perfect foreign similar to greet keeps up where <unk> you're there for for to have to just like an english department perfect uh since uh lost uh semitic languages don't have that <unk> <unk> what ended up happening what sort of interrupting <unk> up there the traditional submitted construction which is <unk> which is something like at me there in a book <unk> um so you haven't sort of an interesting series of <unk> <unk> where you start with the construction like have neither is a written book which ultimately used to form a new perfect that i've written added century uh translation at the green degree <unk> completely different possessive construction if that makes any sense oh wow that's interesting yeah looking at the the verbs um the verb conjugation so i can see that they're that the whole pattern is very sort of looks like a very european pattern but this that's a real i really like um this is one of those cases where we're william what's <unk> born hungry so you ended up re analyzing something completely different eh in order to sort of approximately <unk> what was in greek and in order to show that influence it's that's that's a really um interesting idea to to uh run with [noise] on another example that just from my parents just reminded of <unk> the <unk> tense <unk> logistics ongoing action in the past which other <unk> medical <unk> and he had quit one <unk> and this was essentially what was originally or something entirely separate conjugation that was still appears in most other semitic languages often express things like <unk> and it was it's past tense century cannibalizing mhm to form a new imperfect tech with i guess sort of the rest of the conjugation thrown out uh i notice um as you had with uh never grab you and you have a very good dictionary that gives etymology for all of your ah words as well um you know just randomly looking at it i see you know you end up with um most of the ones that i've just randomly clicked on actually are are greek learn words but some of them i see um from uh i semitic route um <unk> that's uh uh i i do like the way that you do your dictionary with this like troubled dictionary with the uh the words and you clearly know what you're doing as far as um as making words that are not relaxing anything um uh the <unk> seems like sort of the obvious thing that you need to do but we always want to uh to we we have a lot of people who lives in the shows that are newark on language that we always went to show people uh what a good dictionary looks like for a <unk> in this actually with a lot more difficult for me than <unk> <unk> <unk> mhm because <unk> when i was trying to come up with something slavic i already had the background the fact that i think russia oh okay hi <unk> provides a lot more <unk> wishing in terms of i guess what sounds right and what what sort of indians i could make up that <unk> i guess sort of sound reasonable to me whereas <unk> committed which i i don't speak any semitic language nato and i don't see greek native either [noise] a lot more difficult to sort of try to get get the right sense of work and to figure out what how exactly they're used and whether they might be a reasonable candidate for um <unk> or <unk> or or things like that sounds like it's sort of a thing where um you needed to do a whole lot more research [noise] you did both of them are very well research them first place but you may have had to do a little bit more research on the last year and just in terms of getting the the meanings of words and idioms and stuff right than you did with never grabbing maybe yeah i mean i'd agree with that mhm um but it's interesting oh this is i just friendly picked up this word uh react um it means dowry endowment or grant just the fact that dowry is along with him down and grant isn't interesting seems like an interesting bit of trivia to me sorry [laughter] [noise] uh and it's from ah recruit <unk> <unk> or um [noise] [noise] so um <unk> a question i mentioned earlier and maybe you speaking um <unk> and having being russian how ah mutually <unk> is the <unk> with the language that comes from like would some cross speaker on this damn <unk> or would uh politically speaker understanding spoken uh last year um oh march are probably really depends on the register um in the case of washing i would say that especially in a in a much more <unk> much more in older tax like uh maybe i didn't know religious register current [noise] which <unk> much more conservative that might be much more intelligent <unk> mother's medic languages although even that i feel like why not <unk> different enough that it might be tricky to pick out a lot of that maybe recognizing a few comments every now and then and <unk> and especially since i still have greek it's sort of the dominant language i'm cycles too much history um in the inside and a lot of <unk> a lot of the time lots of extra greek bone words thrown in <unk> i don't see another semitic languages that one or two that we make comprehension a lot more difficult mhm um actually trial actually tried to get the small example <unk> in the next to the grammer ah two <unk> a huge amount of <unk> words where i think the majority of the birds actually come from greek and another very conservative semitic mhm mhm mhm [noise] oh man that's uh interesting um so you said that the <unk> came to cyprus at what time what would it be um <unk> remember exactly what but sometime <unk> millennium d._c. okay first millennium b. c. so well that takes care of my question [noise] <unk> because i was making <unk> then that would be far far pre islamic so um [laughter] so <unk> obviously there would be no real um i mean uh nor could be contact with arabic speaking people but it would be far far away from being any having any influence from classical classical arabic um there's a little bit but not agree or most waiting from the time when i guess <unk> rural oversight person much well <unk> <unk> territory but but yeah it's not nearly as now yeah did you do much development of <unk> in culture is like what <unk> how <unk> how are they made up uh sort of religiously do do you have any sort of ideas about what about certain cultural customs anything like that honestly i haven't done a huge amount there were you things i did definitely <unk> i felt like i needed to decide for instance i didn't make them a greek orthodox christian mhm especially because historically there within just the line that would have a huge influence on how the language developed yeah much more green focus store much arab <unk> yeah it makes and it makes sense for the area too and the timeframe ah ah so <unk> any other specific things that you picked out or just <unk> it it's mostly things it affected how you would constrict language i'm understanding then yeah for the most part i guess we're never grabbing i did that in quite a bit more focused on the culture whereas i haven't gotten to that yet but <unk> i might i might do a lot more of that at some point but with my interest urine i guess er first and foremost bowling were engine i created i guess the the scaffolding cultural scaffolding i <unk> went into into entail i don't think i have any more really direct crushed questions um might that you have any <unk> any final things that you want to ask martin about oh it's a it's tough to really even a <unk> you know <unk> lots actually sign up for more than than uh the last year and it's just really real big um that are <unk> <unk> <unk> so far and i don't want you know i don't want to take a great time in basically teaching it um um you know on this so i'm trying to pick out the question but i'm more <unk> towards the <unk> not language learner um [laughter] yeah [laughter] you know part of me not knowing where the you know ah the <unk> mine starts them or the coming from um you know the <unk> semitic and uh having those not like connection and is uh just great volumes of how <unk> how how long have you done this uh come on how to answer the question that u._s. towards sorry uh um you know i i have other <unk> but they're not really based on a combined them more based on <unk> so uh just um <unk> that's all for the <unk> ah my father no would you <unk> martin making lessons for your languages because both uh lashing end of regretting look <unk> much very much complete enough for you to for somebody to actually learn them and use them so i'm just a curiosity <unk> i know you know different congress have different uh ideas relating to people wanting to learn their languages i'm just curious as to as to what your feelings about that would be considered it at times and special report <unk> been around quite a bit margaret washing hasn't this point but i guess that was more to come down you know do i really have that time to dedicate to creating a good system boston [noise] and it's true [laughter] so um i don't know i think where we can sort of go <unk> sort of wrapping up the the discussion of the language <unk> but but um i want to give you one last opportunity just to bring up any like little things that you may want to draw attention towards if you have anything ah oh i mean ultimately i'm personally up there and big historical linguistics <unk> got that one single area and i guess than <unk> more than anything else so that i got to get the most time in terms of researching and [noise] trying to come up with something uh realistic and so i i guess i i really enjoyed the writing the it's <unk> <unk> section where known into all the <unk> like from a logical and morphological develop an uncle language through history and yeah i <unk> i really watch it come back and adding more and more detailed constantly that you just <unk> i guess the one section i i can for anything that i've done i can never keep my hands off of i always want to go back and add some other little quirks you're in there and things like that yeah that's but that's understandable um i'm looking at the history section it this is probably most where ah like microsoft fan you run into the the ah the um sort of grey area between real linguistics and ah and fictional linguistics because like right here you have things that are going on you go all the way from uh <unk> which is of course you know i'm actually uh well it's a reconstructed <unk> but um and some real changes that occurred not dressed in washington but also in arabic and other um other semitic languages <unk> yeah i just i mean i kind of try to make the history section somewhat educational actually compiling some of the information on various books about what these actual parental languages for like <unk> at the same time it sometimes becomes difficult to be able to actually i guess <unk> what what parts are actually real and which one i played around where yeah but you know that's part of the comedy but yeah uh uh i i understand that you know if you're going to write the grammar into consistent style that's going to happen with other language like this that's a plus theory or in having and having like hey well developed sort of historical right so what's that's what's hats and i think um [noise] what can move on to uh feed back [noise] uh if nobody really objects to that um <unk> yeah [laughter] like i said i'm i'm <unk> i'm looking to last year and then you know it seems like every pay the rent so to speak i'm just like <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> um i'm happy for everything that we've heard her you know i'm really looking forward to maybe learning a little bit more about how it works and um yeah i've always wanted to do um based on that like my uncle root system i've just never really know how to implement it because i don't know like i said i never studied language um this very <unk> and it looks like a very uh exemplary um <unk> but it's just that yeah um so for feedback today i um for some <unk> we're we're way behind on the feedback this came in on like october seventeenth but uh cherry wrote in and said hello thanks for doing the pond cats for some reason i just comprehend things butter orally <unk> have we done this one before <unk> much ah um [noise] i don't recall but i don't think so i believe in uh i'm older i'm forty two so unless it was before that i'm on it wasn't before that but anyway so let me start start back [noise] for some reason i just comprehend things better orally than read so it's been very useful for me i'm not a linguist i'm a writer [noise] just trying to make something that doesn't make linguistic grind their teeth <unk> language to go with the culture i created for a <unk> story way back when i was twelve to thirteen long after i ever been heard i've ever heard of <unk> uh it was awful story about <unk> gobs of with <unk> <unk> was pure tease was horrible <unk> but hey i was twelve uh yeah we we've all been er um [noise] a tree most of it out a long time ago but your consciousness encouraged me to give it well not that exactly another try um modest eggs characters and almost everything else uh doing it right uh with some actual knowledge thanks for that and he said and uh she said i think it's a she how about uh <unk> on pigeons i've been studying latin and have a union settle the ninth legion somewhere unlikely <unk> well pigeons there's another person who's who's asked about uh pigeons and criminals [noise] i don't have a whole lot of experience <unk> language contacting journal but um [noise] it would be an interesting ah topic to to go but i think both pigeons and creoles and in one episode maybe um what do you think my [noise] <unk> um i haven't studied a lot in myself but um [laughter] so you know <unk> well i mean pigeons can be i think a lot of pigeons that you hear about and creoles that you hear about um [noise] in the real world often have english was one of the participating languages but uh yeah i mean it'd be interesting uh [noise] you know we <unk> online uh uh that did that must be did uh <unk> not lying exam and creole yeah uh but uh yeah i mean i'm sure if there's one person thinking about this i mean i've thought about trying to place together or not lines in may and he was <unk> she got her in the past so um you know i think that that sounds <unk> [laughter] yeah i don't know martin is that what do you think about pigeons and so you you have such so much language conflict going on in alaska and even though it's not really like a grill or anything i mean that would be interesting yeah all the time i had a cat actually can think of any example online that go the pitching no i don't think so either i don't think a lot of people do it i think probably a lot of people are sort of put off of it in that either one you have to use to real world languages and you have to study lose a lot or you're going to have to make two different languages and put then put them together so that it's it's sort of uh an extra bit <unk> processor you have to go through i think um [noise] but anyway thank you very much for your email <unk> and ah [noise] those go to con language email dot com uh and i want to put out a little thing uh i really really need more of those top of the show greetings in your con line uh <unk> on the contribute page on the website that <unk> tell you all the details of uh what precisely are supposed to translate and and how to submit that but uh um those were are running low in fact i don't know if we actually have one ready right now but um [noise] and [noise] um that's it pretty much um i think we can move on ah some martin every week i always asked my hosts in any gas for sort of final words wisdom <unk> something sort of you can say pretty uh pretty simply that you you think other um <unk> should <unk> think about or um be ah be pondering so uh what are your final words wisdom martin um well to at least those certain people who <unk> <unk> <unk> <unk> that i that i spend so much time on <unk> absolutely read everything you can it's it's hard to it's hard to stressed out enough i just love reading about historical linguistics and all do relevant and all the different languages i come to come together for these things on the contact there's just so much interesting you're only allowed so much to be part of the pie [noise] yeah i think i like the math and even even for a priority on layers like me [noise] research [noise] we'll still have you [noise] your knowledge and your ability to [noise] uh employees for [noise] [noise] yeah ah so ah my [noise] what are your final words [noise] that's uh but i think i [noise] set a very well that might have been uh <unk> they can't learn only ate things and uh [noise] you know it'd be like unjust things all over and there's so much to learn the more you <unk> [noise] and with that i'm going to say happy on line [noise] thank you for listening to con line you could find our our cars <unk> dot com you can send questions comments or topic or featured language suggestions dupont winery i. g. mailbox [noise] to submit it hon langhorn outline greedy for the top of the show see our contributes page for detail [noise] web space for common wineries provided by the language creation society and our team music is by no devised [noise]

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Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 75 Alashian (last edited 2017-09-08 16:25:38 by TranscriBot)