Conlangery #98: Menya (natlang)

Conlangery #98: Menya (natlang)

Published: Mon, 03 Mar 2014 05:00:55 +0000 \

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Transcript

utterance-id1 [noise] [noise] <unk> come to come <unk> language is the people who create them <unk> they uh would me down the road was well he managed to them and over in maine when they have my twin team i didn't even snow somewhere yeah people does your son threw after a while [noise] and ah today we're doing i not lying feature uh we're going to talk about ah <unk> called men yeah it's uh a language of popcorn new guinea which of course we know has something like eight hundred and forty languages in that tiny island and they're also interesting interesting mhm [noise] so why don't we get started on this uh so it's um it's part of the bank and ah language <unk> like i don't know how to pronounce some of the things here right but uh but uh <unk> language family which is a little bit more fun logically complex than other anti languages yes um more complex so little shape all sorts of plenty more folk phonetics happening um we'll talk about one or two the weirdest as as you go on um mhm how about you're getting is interesting that there's these aerial features but even within that you get this crazy diversity which means you can find almost anything you're looking for in a language is popular guinea mhm um would they normally have though it's typically not crazy complex phonetic inventories or um syllable shapes um but the good family tends to be a little bit more complex than it's neighbors and we are talking relatively there's not there's not a huge number of that there's there's not a huge number constant certainly uh but it's interesting in the <unk> like you had had as <unk> a previous life stopped series in right right which is coming enough if you're going to have three series of stops and one of them is pretty likely to be um <unk> my voice tops unusual mhm um actually it's only has to yeah it only has to <unk> a little bit later but not but you know not unheard of yeah not not it's not too crazy but you know you can <unk> i i i feel like it <unk> illustrate she have some interesting features and uh they couldn't even begin with tori without having it be crazy huge yeah absolutely um [noise] uh the foul system is six vowels it's the <unk> like the standard five hours system plus straw but it is is that the case that like there's there's this um i've <unk> i've seen another language like this where like the <unk> more like i i very into uh or something like that i not <unk> you know i'm not big phony guy i don't i didn't stare detail at what's going on the so we're using one of these <unk> yeah and they always and it's a really great when the huge thing it's like uh almost two hundred and fifty pages um and they do their uh organized phonology data statement they look they like to do four languages [noise] um and it it sure looks like the <unk> thing is a completely independent <unk> okay 'cause they do the minimal pairs and it occurs pretty much everywhere it's not a very into something so r._v.s is this the <unk> very much look the other languages in the area uh well my <unk> it has um <unk> which i gather is a bit unusual ah it also has voiced <unk> you've either closest which has got to be very weird [laughter] normally the voice you dealers are pretty unusual they tend to disappear pretty quickly well it <unk> it has a voice right oh <unk> that's a voice okay yeah i i'm <unk> i'm looking at the document with much too small fought [laughter] yeah um so that's a little bit weird um i've not done you know a statistical breakdown of what's going on um in terms of inventory size and places <unk> um uses dentals rather than <unk> which is um it has lots of nasal the only nasal it doesn't have is a huge either except presumably it simulates when it's when you have the um [noise] <unk> stop right it has no <unk> liquids huh that uh <unk> <unk> yeah it it's coming up yeah um although the dental voice will stop you know top presented as a flat and an elephant ugly it's not a funny movie overall like the the sort of falling logical processes and such [noise] we're not did not really jump out at me as being to sort of unusual yeah um <unk> the one that i saw that i caught a quote un out is uh um i'll just quote from the front page time here at the approximate w triggers <unk> of the constant before the next pushing me mcdowell and makes any interviewing plenty mcdowell be who <unk> who so basically what what we're saying is like you have a w. plus constant plus val kilmer it looks like you you could even have any um w. w. n. any number of constants before about and then <unk> would be <unk> so it's like sort of the the label moving interesting yeah um [noise] see nasal can be <unk> you can have a niece levels affected me um the language really hates dental um they're not going to start with [noise] and they assimilate inflate [laughter] so that like if <unk> <unk> it's followed by the suitable to the result is boop [laughter] oh wow yeah that's that's really interesting metal go to the boom rather than keeping the place right and so i forget the where i saw this isn't your somewhere that it just gives to the numbers and you'll be able to stop is the most common confident town which is pretty darn weird yeah um that's but that is that is interesting it's <unk> you see a bunch of stuff going on with the dentals yeah in in this in this whole big list so yeah [noise] um well let this whole language <unk> <unk> that's [laughter] trivia uh sort of moving on what else we went to comment on do you mean for so names are we ready to move onto the next er let's let's let's move on more into <unk> <unk> morphology <unk> well the language is pretty fusion <unk> and you get lots of port man too which just means that you know you have something that looks like a tennis morphine when something it looks like an aspect morphine when they get along together in ways that are not entirely predictable um so analysis could be tricky mhm um and the language has this is complex enough that the last few pages of this grammar full of church mhm yes yeah [laughter] and they're not clear charts there trends were all sorts of um fun is going up that's always fun yeah you have lots of giant charts yeah look yeah now that always makes it makes a certain kind of come on you're feeling very reassured [laughter] uh i'm doing a lot of sharks recently with one one of my <unk> oh yes yes so you got there it is charts or charts reassuring [laughter] i try stuff away from them but i always feel a little bit on the shore and i always you know gravitate towards them once again at the end of the day so <unk> arts charts our help for for the [laughter] the things that they're useful for [laughter] okay [laughter] really in good revolutionary yeah that was that was a yogi bear or something yeah but i mean what i mean it's like not every language will you even need like any charts right for anything other than maybe pronounced but you know if you have you know complex inflection will systems like menu it looks like it has [noise] then having handy <unk> just a good overview reference yeah mandarin chinese it's less well searched by lesser charge yeah there's there's no reason for [laughter] um all right so onto some <unk> on patriot's so this grammar again it's from so it's great i'm paid fourteen we have um every sentence is mark by um i called the speech act marking they call it um mood critics so it's another marked at indicative [noise] hold her question that has he has no question it content question or do they just hit the speakers expressing doubt or lack of knowledge mhm well i like about the <unk> apart from it'd be fun to say it is um is that not only does it <unk> does it mark um doubt about the full statement but it can mean you have <unk> about the identity of some reference within the claws okay that's that's an interesting sort of yeah you know <unk> in <unk> in it sort of marketing choose not not just the whole sentence but like uh uh component in the <unk> um uh and uh i don't know it's nice to see i don't know why it's <unk> i i grabbed port this good but polar and content having a uh a poor questions is content questions having something fundamentally different that's not that unusual but it's it's an interesting you know thing to look up right it's an interesting sort of redundancy 'cause most of us think we've got the counting question where <unk> you need mhm by when you need such a thing right um one thing i i was just uh looking at just just as i read through the indicative mood thing is it looks like sort of the indicative <unk> bar marker has a lot of <unk> yeah so that's but and it's dependent on like what the last what word class the last word and the <unk> is that makes it that sort of is interesting to me that sort of i guess maybe it attaches to <unk> and <unk> then becomes this just eat but otherwise it's neat or something like the word ordering this language is extremely rigid <unk> almost always going to be finding itself attached to her right <unk> the the way it goes right so most of the time you're gonna get that eat right but it's <unk> it's interesting to to note so and we just talk about word order um i didn't see as much in the section that they have a nice little statistical overview of the word yep or um that's that's uh not not as interesting i think to congress as to linguists [laughter] i don't [noise] ah warning none of warning but he didn't <unk> that there's even a language and we can say the word over as rigidly s._o._b. there's still always weirdness is that can happen where it's not yeah and it's sort of just rarely uh deviate from the s._o._b. mostly s._o._b. and you know obviously you can drill down in this and find you know what are the most effective environments where it changes word order william didn't didn't you make a note [noise] about um what was that i'm not looking at the document i'm looking at the at the um <unk> <unk> uh oh about the verb conjugation right the the more foot syntax is object <unk> subject um at least some of the time mhm um we'll get to the full delightful complexity of the verb shortly yeah [noise] <unk> <unk> the <unk> different from the the <unk> <unk> yeah structure which that's kind of an obvious thing but it's useful for people to have that in mind as an option [laughter] um uh now when you talk about that you are you saying like the er <unk> when they get put onto the verb ratio them that order right if you're looking at age twenty four you see that the well he's calling the affect the here but uh you know <unk> basically the object is the <unk> um the subjects oh well gee <unk> forum that's mostly um <unk> [noise] the whole subject marking system is a big hairy mess because many uh uses the switch reference mhm mhm so we talked about these some time in the past where there is a special piece of morphology in this case lots of special pieces of morphology that say whether the claws um refers to the same subject or a different subject of the previous cause that's really cool um and that's just i mean there you have this is the problem always right we talk about people a lot and you get lots of people need to keep track of who's doing what whom and there are different ways to manage this one is to have lots of programs um so in some sense english has lost all grammatical gender but retained that for he and she just because it's useful um from a narrative perspective and that's just me speculating widely but that seems reasonable arguments that um mhm you can cheat naming people which is tedious um but some languages <unk> this scheme and as a way to deal with that and i have an overt marking whether the subject is the same um as it wasn't a previous clause or it was different this seems to happen a lot when you do not have any distinction between third person programs right you just have a third person <unk> <unk> it's not differentiated for right there's no there's no gender changes there's no <unk> there's no longer for yes nothing like that and then <unk> none of the various teams that are available to keep track of the sort of reference management [noise] um [noise] what did you say oh there's a uh a vested you'll um gender system in this language which will see when we get to your friends uh-huh um there is some uh <unk> as well which gets into fun um because of uh how interaction to switch reference system [noise] um so we're looking page thirty four we have to pronouns first second third singular do <unk> like <unk> are pretty common in <unk> oh okay um [noise] here's a question i didn't pick up on this is the tool um is there a tool throughout the language <unk> mainly in the personal brooms or i think there are other other for markings yes yeah some of the verb agreement markings are still a tool but i'm not sure like how expensive yeah i don't i'm trying to remember any reference to overeating number marking on now it's yeah that's what i would i would want to question about is i can't remember we have all sorts of interesting things about now [noise] i'm looking at him in a person number <unk> has a dual form um but i don't know if that's just 'cause it doesn't mention that and the can term gender for the third person reference your okay well but uh but okay we'd have to but we'd have to be reading that explanation to figure out exactly what that gould refers to [noise] um yeah it doesn't look like downs or overtly marked for number [noise] anyway uh her are sort of there's gender forums pronouns that's normal there's inside at forms uh pronouns and hey that word i uh know hey ah so what does it affect me in that particular language [laughter] who who freaking knows what <unk> uh <unk> <unk> thirty five diehard <unk> emphatic forms uh there's demolished tips you pointed me at the number one system you know you're jumping way far ahead hear george yes okay let's let's not go there [noise] not yet um [laughter] i must of just er nice they're on page thirty six [noise] um <unk> and the more they're very complex get they get along together in these big words but they um distinguish distance like near far at some indefinite distance and something that's called the executive that were for something that is known to be at a particular location [noise] <unk> rather the exact entity that you're referring to um you can include um whether it is at our level above you or below you oh uh want forms referring to people can mark <unk> uh you know masculine feminine um demeaning tipper unrealistic um and they come together all sorts of complicated ways and they are preferred to the third person programs [noise] mhm [noise] well there's <unk> there are several pages devoted to um how yeah how it all falls out morphological in front of logically when everything's chunk together yeah who looks like a a very complex system that uh it looks like at least uh at one point the high level distinction only applied to the far um right in different places it acts differently if you look on page thirty nine the masculine singular demonstrative pronouns the mid versus far distinction is maintained it all of the levels oh okay so it was down there and the one way down there are different words [laughter] so you can <unk> so that's that's just an interesting thing to point out is that you it's possible for a language to have this sort of a some a tree in one particular system absolutely very very long time yeah um <unk> right so that was that the um what they called diabetic can pronouns are really interesting these pop up in various places around the world where the diabetic means that the word refers to two individuals and if you get a relationship mhm mhm so that the phrase i in my son and the phrase i my father or identical for males speaker [laughter] mm okay um they're identical yes so it's like uh huh okay so it's no no it's just it's like you have a word that saying father and son yes yeah i was saying okay i think i understand yeah oh that makes sense and and the relationships for which there are such pronouns are husband wife parent child um a separate fathers son one brother brother sister sister brother sister and then grandparent relationships and then also in relationships so that kind of like spouse the wife what that is my spouse almost as my spouse but they're the same <unk> you know kind of static okay yeah that's interesting that that that actually reminds me of something a chinese where there's you you can have you can just compound to uh uh compound the the <unk> terms i gather and you get something like that [noise] um it's usually like attribute is right and then on page two twenty nine they have a nice chart yeah chart um giving various forms in different numbers of these um in pronoun forums mhm yeah they cut all the charts yeah all the charge [laughter] [noise] um ooh ooh [laughter] um in terms of other kinship words isn't going to page forty five [noise] these are surprisingly obligatory possessed okay not not too unusual so that's pretty common yeah yeah so <unk> so a lot of languages when we say obligatory possess it's like you have to have some sort of possession marking on the <unk> which that happens in a um a number of languages number of american indian languages do it that way and it's sort of [laughter] it makes sense to me because when you're using it became trip term you're always defining someone in relation to someone else yes yeah so you know <unk> are usually you are there's there's not as many circumstances where you prefer to mothers' generally right right and now you just can't say mother's it has to be that my mother you're [noise] something huh mm moving um <unk> is an interesting thing i noticed on page forty eight um you can have complex noun phrases where you just have a bunch of <unk> cramped together without any sort of overt linking sort of like english does mhm or experiment or german well german <unk> sometimes there's um [noise] uh we're changes involved there oh yeah sure thing looking which was more straightforward and not right uh [noise] we have a good example right so dumb houses toilet song person is singer that sort of thing and it's just no <unk> um non non um right right right and i just thought that was interesting these big things you don't like [noise] i'm trying to think of you know the tax office right it's not like macs turn into an addict or anything it's not as good together um george finally we can talk about the numbers yeah i'm looking at the numbers i saw this so this is <unk> on a vacation and you'll find it eventually yeah um i actually heard of <unk> the demonstrative section so that they have some relation to them [noise] but uh what i found interesting is like there's like uh a primary system in the lower numbers right so [noise] one is <unk> cool uh two is <unk> and then three is <unk> and basically what is happening more <unk> <unk> means the three breaks down is two one and then for breaks down his two two and then with five you get uh <unk> it's all the hand on one side yeah so you you you i think it's the this primary system still does affect some <unk> numbers up higher but you also end up with um things of counting how many hats and twelve is olive well view is below right right so you have elements of several different um mathematical basis going on [noise] it's interesting to have the the the <unk> the the primary thing that's not something i've ever seen before and a language so that's an interesting little tidbits yeah the thing that's common too popular beginning is referring to parts of your limbs to refer to numbers mhm that's very common where you count your fingers and then you start moving up your arm and various joints and your shoulder and all that and that sort of mapping of the body to <unk> um numerical values is very common [noise] and and cross linguistically using like your hand for five at the very least this is common right although for that so practically universal but yeah um although their their their original native number system is being obliterated my talk pistons so yeah uh well that's the other interesting thing [laughter] you you can borrow just entire number systems from another from from her mother language it's very interesting tidbit of uh of a sitcom often that happens anyway yeah yeah um i thought it was interesting that they have a special suffix too um uh starting a page sixty [noise] um we have various words related to time and they have a special time subjects for somewhat more complex things than just um you know now tomorrow yesterday [noise] mhm [noise] um so i thought that was neat yeah [noise] ah say right um and then starting on page sixty one we have a large number of luck it is uh <unk> oh yeah and uh it's more than just it's definitely not a simple walk it it it's you know there's none of these none of these looked like just i guess there's there's <unk> oh let's say after specified location which you could say where to put the maybe more of a <unk> but it's like within a region location <unk> unseen from the point of reference so that's that's some pretty interesting but i think that this is the language people might want to look at if they're interested in [noise] adding a bunch of different locking mark markers yes yeah to uh and uh they have oh they have the same i level the stinks you mental locked into markers too right well you can take the demonstrative in government together with these <unk> and you get a large right right you get another very big chart so it doesn't appear to be completely filled out and i don't know and even the author said it's not clear if that is due to lack of elicited data or if there's actually no form there yeah that's something that we should always worried about it when people are looking at like the <unk> any grammar of i language that is not very well studied there's just there's always a chance that something is missing just because we don't have documentation for it right uh-huh yeah it might be <unk> because it's not there i mean that's always possible to they'd be done i i mean it <unk> it could be not there but i mean like if you're looking at a language as a model and you know that it's not been studied that much maybe uh maybe there's this one reference grammar you found that sort of like yeah you can sort of choose whether or not you want to fill in the gap's just as part of your creative decisions when you're transferring these systems into your own <unk> so <unk> yeah okay um shall we move onto verbs verbs yeah let's see wacky verbs [laughter] yeah they're pretty they're pretty i mean firms are often very interesting in numerous ways and this one is morphological rich [laughter] um <unk> roots have at least two forums mhm um there's one form that's used um before a constant other than the <unk> and then you have another form that is used before vowels or the dealer mhm so fun electrical conditioning yeah some logical conditioning <unk> although it's interesting that um the you've yours pedaling with levels <unk> um oh what the vowel do they put like um <unk> <unk> <unk> do you feel and lost all kinds of the middle yet they don't might have lost off there's all sorts of fun kinds of religion and stuff [noise] um there's a little bit of a fairly complex changes like um [noise] one example is <unk> versus plus um mhm but you can get other more complex um changes like one is me but the other form is new uh [laughter] <unk> is the basic routine is just <unk> um <unk> <unk> so you get some interesting um some more interesting more complex things going on sometimes mhm [noise] um i thought it was just cute um i noticed in passing that the um verb for to be a means to be when it's in trans did but it means to put when it's used like a transit mm um that's that's an interesting thing ah i just thought that was cute i miss but uh what what what do you what does it mean entranced him to be uh like when <unk> when the verb is used with in transit of morphology it means uh he's with transit morphology <unk> oh okay okay i was playing with something like that on one of my phone lines <unk> having to to kind of ah there's transit <unk> having the roots mean different things with the firm you [noise] with the different sauces okay it looks like it looks like it's like it's it can be to be mostly with like uh adjective credit cats or something like that okay [noise] uh like oh [noise] okay never mind [laughter] i was going to say [laughter] um i don't know what we're thinking [laughter] there's no uh starting on page uh eighty four [noise] there is no overt um distinction between a direct object in an indirect object mhm [noise] um so the introduction recipient however when you have um the object marking on <unk> like for to give the recipient indirect object is marked on the verb nothing item being given a okay right so and this is another principal were the thing you care most about um is most likely to be called reference to uncover so since we've got verbs that are probably personal agreement anyway um the recipient becomes the item that's marked on the [noise] all right 'cause it's been <unk> going to be a person we usually care more about right right oh always always human beings are usually at the top of of what we care about in uh in languages uh-huh <unk> based i guess it's just um a more case driven thing well hey it's <unk> right yeah mhm so it's [noise] it's not really <unk> other than like that might be dependent the what the tendency came from but it's it's just it's just purely a grammatical thinking that they they they marketed the they preferential earmark the indirect object so uh so compound verbs where non verbal compounds occur now and followed by a verb of some sort um these are pretty common <unk> more common in fact than um uh other sorts of <unk> like non non compounds are not particularly common um i i i mean words that are definitely compound as opposed to simply modify on each other [noise] such little section where he goes into that um age uh eighty seven forty six other berries are [noise] interesting interesting so they they talk about verbal now plus generic verb the generic verbs are to sort of things you expect to do be make it go cut say um that you know you'll have single noun might occur with multiple versions of these verbs to produce different kinds of meetings um such that the word for hand combined with cuts uh total means to count um whereas with two x. um uh cut means to hold the word for what i assume it's teeth to cut teeth means to bite or <unk> with the teeth rather um and shoot what is what is it <unk> <unk> uh which combined with the the tow word means <unk> so that's an interesting possibilities for related words yeah okay so on page ninety we have these interesting <unk> pre fixes uh-huh mhm so you could have a positive statement or negative statements i go to the store i do i don't go to the store um in many uh the positive <unk> has both the strong version and a week for mhm unfortunately strong version is almost never present because the bible is uh and disappears um and the week versus sometimes zero march [noise] whoa whoa whoa [laughter] so i'm <unk> i you know i'm i i wonder how the the field workers were banging their heads trying to figure out <unk> [laughter] [noise] [laughter] yeah um so they talk about this starting on page an i._d. and those are interesting they talking about various implications but there is a pre six that goes onto the verb um as <unk> in addition to um uh the rest of the negative marking which is um usually handled with helping verbs action yeah okay um that's [noise] yes george [noise] [noise] yeah there's a <unk> i didn't <unk> yet footage with what you said it's a whole bunch of um for movies um yeah [noise] one thing i mentioned it i thought i put it in the note there are three degrees of past tense but it only occurs on finite verb forums oh okay so well that that's not too unusual but the <unk> agrees with past tense that's not that unusual yeah anyway uh weird no um i've got a whore today we've gotta debilitate which just means i can do something versus a camper right um an intensive which is very commonly used in march and intention to do something lucrative namely i must do something um apparently there are two futures but i don't understand what the differences between them [laughter] but i've <unk> i didn't care too much of that there's a permissive namely someone is allowed to do that um there's a contrary to fact and the frustrate of indicates <unk> since fulfilled intention ah okay [noise] so that that makes that makes a lot of sense to have uh so and unfulfilled intention the food is that like i was going to finish reading <unk> yeah the implication that was that you did not right right it's sort of like an object to that also implies that it's not been completed yes mhm okay so that's that's that's one that i might steal [laughter] i've seen it come up in other places um [noise] hope the had the little part a cool which is usually translated as something like in vain mhm but you can also use it with the uh an in personal statement like it rained in vain actually means it was supposed to rain but it [laughter] right well my point is that invading it's not a very good translation when it comes right right right right out of things like that but right something that was expected or planned or intended to happen but did not something that pops up in languages from time to time yes of course uh what is some media we're right it's a media verbs are extremely common in this language and they're basically a verb forms that includes include various kinds of relationships that we normally think about as dependent closet tar on purpose reason that sort of thing when they arrived i told them is that so on and so forth um while after before um these are all common things um sometimes they're march with um [noise] in the trucking languages and i'll take languages they called they think conned verbs mhm which is going to be confusing in our community but yet you got a concert [laughter] i didn't even thought about that yes um uh so it's really interesting and complex in many uh because you have multiple convert <unk> multiple media worms um which in code you switch reference stuff so you have one set of forms for same subject and some sort of forms for different subject nutley called e._r. and i saw [noise] different referendum yes yeah um so yes and there's a whole bunch of these <unk> um pages and pages discussing this stuff it's really interesting the syntax section i mean we talk about the morphology these and then there's the entire separate section of the document explaining how these things in iraq so it's really interesting and rich and you can learn a lot by reading this right right um one consequences of these medial verbs is that there is not much in the way of conjunctions they're simple things like and but or kinds of things um which slip differently than most of us expect um but the other sorts of conjunctions that we expect or not necessarily because of the <unk> um excuse me medial <unk> forums oh right because they take up a lot of that space him in terms of making in function yeah yeah in in their function yeah okay negotiation is usually a compound [laughter] although what'd you do you add the the negative prefix yeah <unk> uh right and and then the whole phrase is nominal lines and then you use a form of to do or to be okay with any extra um marketing that's necessary because you've ever it's just been turned into a now okay yeah i see that so it's like er i'd say i do not baking right or something like that so that that's that's just an interesting and bizarre sort of vacation thing uh common it's not that uncommon rather i think <unk> i i want to go to a <unk> show him this and say now where is make peace here [laughter] [laughter] right [laughter] [noise] [noise] ah what is the peace and for <unk> ah craze of negative phrase it got it um you know the next <unk> weirdly and then <unk> yeah i know in terms of auxiliary lever constructions which this language all language already uses um pretty abundantly this isn't that <unk> <unk> okay all right um no it's just surprising to me though yeah um there's of course various kinds of verb chaney and cereal verbs um uh say rather verb training is that's the sort of um <unk> uh verb see realization happens but it's pretty restrained compared to some other languages in the area um in terms of syntax one thing that i thought was really neat is that pretty much any kinds of claws um you don't <unk> verbs per se you normalize entire claws um very confusing link <unk> [laughter] um but there are lots of interesting examples of it right or that for example um abstract now like happiness is just a phrase you know do happy um novel yeah okay that's not that's not too surprising really right but the ability to turn entire clauses <unk> um it's another way to do interesting things with the tax yeah um we can and english <unk> earn an entire claws into um attribute too but it's that's more like that's more like another way of making relative clauses relate yeah mhm [noise] um so yes turning around page two hundred and ten is where all of this interesting cause not motivation is going on <unk> interesting example you know interesting possibilities for verb generation in languages where you don't want to have just um endless positive sufficient um mhm uh on page two hundred and thirteen there is an interesting um uh end quote particle yeah um which uh combines with other things and complicated ways so it presents it has lots of elephant he basically [noise] oh yeah uh lots of um it <unk> it can just sort of connect to all sorts of other particles in <unk> uh or <unk> or <unk> or ah <unk> yeah yeah yeah yeah presents itself in lots of um [noise] yeah that's that's something i don't know how often i really see it in <unk> but it does occur in in natural languages that you can have uh not just and the quote split like done japanese have like something that bracket <unk> a direct quote i don't know um i think it <unk> does but i don't know anything that lengths that have opened enclosed quote particles [noise] mm i i thought the japanese that maybe if there's any japanese speakers out there that can that can correct me on that then then feel free [noise] but um it's like it's sounds like it <unk> it does a little [laughter] when when you say say it but you know you have this and the <unk> quick politically and <unk> and that's definitely not an <unk> thing because of all the very end forms of it [noise] so you could probably do some interesting things with something like that you um like i said there's entire section missing tax talking about um different kinds of clauses due to these mediocre verbs and maintaining you know who's doing much whom i'm at any given moment um is pretty complex and it's hard to talk about it so i'm not focused on it but if you're <unk> you know if you're trying to write a story and you're calling and you find yourself running up against walls where it's not clear who's doing what um you might find that interesting and in terms of i have often found it hard to understand what's going on with switch reference system because they don't give you an example frankly um this grammer it's full of examples about this very thing um all over the place talks about it extensively and in addition to the <unk> there are several um stories that again right which i don't actually gores um so no dictionary there's some some limited stuff on uh kim uh kinship terms but no no like significant dictionary but i see no um <unk> people tend to write their dictionary separately from the <unk> yeah in any case but big lost uh you know glossed example sentences and stories are useful mhm 'cause you can see things especially stories are great right get multiple people involved and you can see the switch references some actually in work right instructed useful and improving morally and common we simply [noise] [laughter] [noise] uh there's there's there's some marriages but if you're if you're interested in that story's american [noise] [laughter] [noise] all right so i think that's about all we really wanted to cover and found that ah on this particular episode uh looks like we're having a a pretty [noise] we have a pretty good one [noise] um i will linked to see grammer it's available freely on line [noise] um and and uh [noise] we [noise] the will and nobody has anything to me find a loop to say [noise] and then i think we can call this an episode and i will say happy <unk> thank you for listening to con line you could find our archives sure knows that <unk> dot com you can send questions comments poor topic poor featured language suggestions to con lying or e. i. g. e. mail dot com [noise] to submit icon langhorn outlying rooting for the top of the show see our contribute paid for detail [noise] web space <unk> language creation society and our team music is by no device [noise]

Tags

  1. Conlangery Podcast
  2. Podcast
  3. language
  4. linguistics
  5. Menya
  6. natlang
  7. Papua New Guinea

Conlangery Podcast/Conlangery 98 Menya (natlang) (last edited 2017-09-09 12:37:44 by TranscriBot)